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Anthony Adolph, professional genealogistWelcome to the Genes Reunited web chat, where you can get help and advice from our resident genealogist and expert family historian, Anthony Adolph. To find out more about Anthony click here.

Thanks again to Anthony and everyone who joined in on the sessions so far.

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Name Date
william halliday 2013/12/23 09:36:25 PM

Emma Scott, born 1832 in Nottingham, England, married William Moore 30/09/1849 1851 census shows Emma Moore as a lodger at 12,Pierpont St. Nottingham, a Henry Savage (my wifes great,great grandfather) was also a lodger at this address. 1861 Census shows Henry as Head (Cordwainer) and Emma Savage as wife at 16, Commerce St,St Marys, Nottingham with three children. I have been unable to find any evidence of a divorce from William Moore or a mrriage to Henry. The 1871 Census shows Emma as Head of family The same 1871 census shows Henry Savage as being a Patient at "Middlesex Lunatic Asylum". Marital Status Widow 6 months hard labour. I am trying to find Emma as she does not appear in any future census records.

This is a fantastic example of what the indexed censuses on this website can reveal. Before they were indexed in this way, you'd never have found most of this out. At that period, divorce was way beyond the means of most people, but you may well find a death for William Moore (under that spelling, or a variant spelling perhaps). If you can't find a marriage for Emma and Henry then they almost certainly weren't: as a married woman, Emma was 'Mrs' and if she changed her name from Moore to Savage because she was living with Henry she'd not have been the first who behaved in that way. The 1871 census for Emma used her own information (and false claims) but the census entry for Henry was filled in by an asylum official so was probably truthful in saying he was a widower, ie that he had once had a wife, before Emma, who had died. Oh what a tangled web!

John Crowder 2013/12/23 09:01:01 PM

In tracing my paternal line I seemed to have reached a brick wall in terms of my paternal grandmother's ancestry. My Paternal grandmother's maiden name was Lily Adelaide COX. Her parents were Arthur William Franklin COX and Clarissa COX nee JOHNSON who married in 1866. In the 1891 census Arthur COX (aged 26) a railway signalman, Clarissa and Lily A COX, together with Arthur's sister Louisa COX (aged 12) were living in Biggleswade although Arthur's place of birth was given as Newark, Nottinghamshire (not Ely). I can find no related birth in Newark. The 1881 census for Islington has William COX (aged 39) a Railway Shunter born West Indies living with his wife Mary A COX (aged 40) born Ilford Essex; Arthur W J COX (aged 14) born Ely and his siblings George (Aged 11), Robert (aged 6) and Louisa J (aged 1) which seems to tie in with the 1881 census. The 1871 census for Southwark has a Thomas R CHANDLER aged 65) living with his Wife Matilda CHANDLER (aged 48) born St Kitts together with her grandson William COX (aged 4) born in Ely. Thomas CHANDLER married a Matilda A C COX in Westminster in the qtr ending Dec 1866. I am having problems to identify a specific death but presume that William died sometime between 1861 and 1866. From his birth certificate I find that Arthur William Franklin COX was born in ELY on 29 Sept 1866 to William John Franklin COX (a Railway Porter) and Mary Ann COX nee SANGSTER who were married in ELY on 17 Sept 1866 (presumably Mary Ann was heavily pregnant with Arthur at the time). At the time of there marriage William's father was given as William COX (publican). The 1851 census for Portsea refers to a William COX (aged 35) born Avening Glos. c.1816, a Railway Police Officer living with his wife Matilda COX (aged 27) born St Kitts, son William COX (aged 9) born St Kitts and daughter Mary COX (aged 3) born St Kitts. This suggests that William and Matilda were married in St Kitts where their two children were born. From all account the records available in St Kitts are very limited. How can I proceed to establish when and why William went out to St Kitts (the dates suggest that he may returned to the UK in the early 1800's after the abolition of the slave trade. I would also appreciate advice as to how I might research Matilda's ancestry.

A major reason why people went abroad at all was if they were serving in the army or the navy, so one suggestion here would be to see if this person appears in the army or navy records at The National Archives. The army births.baptisms and army marriages may come in useful for pinning down events concerned with this family as well, as they have the virtue of covering events all over the world which concerned British soldiers. The Mormons have microfilmed a lot of Caribbean records as well, and you can see what they have available using the catalogue section of the FamilySearch.org website.

Susan Thrower 2013/11/19 09:57:29 PM

Many thanks Anthony. I have traced both lines fairly extensively and found the original name of Errington as the surname of Thomas Errington Scott's maternal grandmother. I have not as yet been able to make a connection however I am convinced that there is one somewhere as my husband bears a stunning resemblance to a photo of a third brother Rev Charles Perry Scott bishop of Shanghai. Thomas Errington Scott's family originated in NE but our Scott seem to have been located in Cheshire as farmers. I understand that often if there were several sons one went into the military one the clergy and another to manage estates. Could this be a likely explanation for the different locations.

You'll just have to carry on tracing both lines further back to see if they match up. But sometimes, two people with the same surname could become friends, and joke that they were related, and the 'joke could solidify quickly into 'fact', causing all sorts of problems for later generations of genealogists, so you never know. I've seen it happen!

Karen Evans 2013/11/19 09:50:12 PM

Hello again Anthony. I have been asked to help a friend trace her step brother.She was actually adopted but she knows her mother was Ellen Edith Summers[formerly Taylor]and that she was married to a Maurice Eustace Herbert Summers.Apparently Ellen was born in 1910 and when she was 38 she had a son that may have been about 8 years old.Where do i go to find out any more info especially because the info i need is after the 1911 census.Oh the summers family lived in Warstock,Birmingham.Thanks Karen.

You can use the General Registration marriage records on this site to seek Ellen and Maurice's marriage record (and order the certificate on www.,gro.gov.uk) and then you can look for births of children to their marriage. Once you know any children's names, you can work forward and seek their marriages, and births of their children, and thus work forwards to the present.

Joan Thurston 2013/11/19 09:46:49 PM

Hi Anthony, found the answer, thank you. Yes, My ancestor was a lookalike for Edward V11, it is thought that he may have been asked by the King to stand in for him if the King wanted to be with Lily Langtry. He wasn't an employee, he ran coffee houses in London at the time.Mr Lipton approached him to amalgamate their businesses, but my ancestor didn't want to.

How fascinating! It's a great story and it should be fun researching it in detail, starting with all published biographies of the king.

Patricia Connolly 2013/11/19 09:46:33 PM

i have been trying for some time now to trace my mother;sfamily from ireland her maiden name was lynch,and she married patrick slaven they both came from monaghan,and arrived in glasgow my mother was born in glasgow in1899,i would like some advice on how to trace my maternal grandparents

Look for the deaths of any of the family who reached Scotland, as the death records will name the deceased's parents. Then, you need to to use the Co. Monaghan records (in Belfast) to start trying to pin the family down there. Ideally, a Scottish census will name someone who was born there after Irish General Registration started in 1864, so you seek their birth and thus learn their specific birth place.

Marie Hurst 2013/11/19 09:42:02 PM

thank you anthony x

My pleasure!

Phyllis Newman 2013/11/19 09:39:31 PM

Hi Anthony Have you any idea where Somersdean, Sussex might be please. Phyll

I have not heard of it, but 'dean' or 'den' is a typical local term for a valley: try looking at a nineteenth century directory for Sussex for such a place (perhaps under a different spelling), as it may be te name of a farm or small hamlet.

Joan Thurston 2013/11/19 09:33:11 PM

What happened to my question i submitted at about 9.04pm tonight? It has disappeared and I can't find an answer anywhere? Where am I supposed to look for the answer?

I've answered it - please see below, and in fact here it is again... That's the second rather surprising question of the evening. Does the story perhaps indicate that Richard looked like Edward, and was perhaps even mistaken for him? Presumably, Edward didn't employ someone to impersonate him - or did he? You could try looking at biographies of Edward to see if this was mentioned. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine what such a stand-in would actually do. For the record, the records of employees of the Royal Household are on the Find My Past website. A very curious question!

David Williams 2013/11/19 09:27:21 PM

Anthony, sorry if I didn't make it clear. My Grandmother, Theresa/Tessa was born to Fanny Reeves of Fulham but given into the charge of Mr & Mrs Heaver from Dover. Unless Theresa was Mr Heaver's illegitimate child I don't know why or how they came to be responsible for her. Mr Heaver was not legally my Great Grand Father - Just the person who, with his wife, brought up my Grandmother. I was hoping the declaration might throw some light on it.

Yes, so that is what I thought.

Karen Evans 2013/11/19 09:25:12 PM

Hello Anthony.Can you tell me how to find the address of Andrew and Ann Anderson who lived in Tewkesbury in the 1830/1840s.The 1841 census isn't very clear.He was born around 1811 but a previous contact says he was born in 1804.In the 1850's he moved to Sedgley in the midlands.I am also trying to confirm that ann's maiden name was Caishe.

Before the Post Office was established, and before most people could read or write, most people didn't have addresses as we understand them now. Andrew Anderson would simply have lived at 'Andrew Anderson's house in whatever part of Tewkesbury it was. Ages in the 1841 census were rounded down to the nearest five years, so the best thing is to seek him in the 1851 census, which will be more specific. It should also say where he was born, so you can then seek his baptism, and thus his parents' marriage to confirm his mother''s maiden name.

Sophia Para 2013/11/19 09:22:06 PM

I have a brick wall, My great great grandfather Charles Wilson.was born 1836 New York, and father James a farmer. That is all the information on his marriage cert to a Jane Bagnall in Liverpool. His address is the address of the seaman's home. I have searched for years to no avail, also his son Charles Wilson jun. also a seaman died between 1904-1907. I have checked in the archives in Liverpool and London and still no luck.

The next step presumably would be to look for Charles's birth in New York, and he should appear in the 1840 census there. Have a look on www.familysearch.org if you have not done so already.

Marion Swainston 2013/11/19 09:19:50 PM

Many thanks will try registration index

Good luck! It's here on this site under 'Search Records'.

Neville Janes 2013/11/19 09:18:06 PM

My great aunt Mabel Elizabeth JANES was born in Cheltenham 1895/6. Her first child Phoebe N M Williams was (according to her Marriage Certificate) born in 1917 and in GWENT. Again, her Father was Benjamin Williams. I have reached a dead end in looking for a Marriage Cert for Mabel to Benjamin Williams, and also a Birth Cert for Phoebe. However, I did find a Marriage Cert for Mabel to Jesse James Hyett in 1919 using name of Mabel Elizabeth Williams. This leads me to suspect that Benjamin Williams may have died in the Great War. though I cannot find any records to back this. Phoebe kept the name of Williams up to the time of her marriage, to Sidney Ballinger in 1945. Can you offer advice as to where to go for the missing links

Why not obtain the 1919 marriage record and see if it is your Mabel? Then you could look for Phoebe's birth as Hyett, or maybe it will appear under Mabel's maiden name of Janes. In any case involving a Janes family it may be sensible to look under James, to see if entries for one were misread and mis-indexed under the other. I expect many were and maybe the documents you want were too.

Alan Pickering 2013/11/19 09:15:49 PM

Hi Anthony, I am trying to find the index for the death certificate of my GG / Grandfather William Allen b 1817 in Sibsey Lincolnshire, on the 1861 census he was living in Nottingham age 43, but on the 1871 census his wife, my GG/Grandmother Elizabeth is shown as a widow now living in Chorlton on Medlock, I know that death ages were not shown on the indexes until 1866 and he does not match any of those ages, also no deaths are shown in either Nottingham or Chorlton on Medlock before 1866 , is there anyway that I can trace his whereabouts when he died ? Thanking you. Alan Pickering.

If you cannot easily pick William's death out of the General Registration records, and can't face buying lots of potentially wrong certificates, you can try seeking a burial for him, or a reference to him in the will indexes, or even a local newspaper announcement - but that process could be as long and complex as obtaining death certificates. With a name like 'William Allen' you can't really expect things to be all that easy, I'm afraid.

pauline ann Roberts 2013/11/19 09:13:46 PM

Hello Anthony, My father Cecil Tudor Roberts was married in 1936 in Warrington but left his wife and went to Australia with my mother. Is there any way to find out if there was any issue from the marriage. Would like to think I had a sibling out there. Also was my father an only child born 1910 as he died before I was 18 months.

Any children born to Cecil in England should be registered in the English General Registration birth records, indexed on this site. You can pick out possibilities as the indexes include the mother's maiden name, and then buy the likeliest certificates to see if Cecil was indeed the father. Then you could use the same records (births, marriages and deaths) to try to trace any such children forwards. His 1936 marriage record will also give you a good extra coordinate on him so that you can seek his birth record and start tracing his ancestry and in the course of this you can research whether his parents had any other children. The 1911 census should get you off to a good start and thereafter mother's' maiden names start appearing in the birth indexes, so you can see if his parents had other children or not.

Marie Hurst 2013/11/19 09:13:01 PM

hi, I am really stuck on my mums side of the family in my tree. her grt grandfather was peter brown born 1800-1803 0n all census records. it says he was born in winwick lancashire.. he lived all his life in earlstown newton le willows.lancashire. my problem is I cant find his parents as there are 2 peter browns in our area. also on my dads side I am trying to find the grave of his grandfather john hurst he died in 1915 in bolton please can you advise me thank you

You'll need to look in the parish registers of Winwick to see if there is the baptism of a Peter which fits: if there are more than one, you will need to look for a burial (from infancy onwards) or mention in other records, such as censuses, of the other one, so you can eliminate him. In that area, and with those names, though, you may well be dealing with Catholics, so you could use Michael Gandy's Atlas and Index of Catholic registers to establish which the most local Catholic registers were and search in them. For burials - your other question - you can try www.deceasedonline.com or else you'll have to search the local burial and cemetery records one by one.

Susan Thrower 2013/11/19 09:10:49 PM

Hi Anthony. I am having difficulty connecting two branches of the Scott family in my tree. My husbands maternal great grandfather and great grandmother were married at St. John's Church Chester by curate Thomas Errington Scott brother of Rev Samuel Cooper Scott. My husbands Christian name is Errington and we know that he was named for Thomas Errington Scott and there has been an Errington in the family each generation since. As Richard Scott and Lucy Shore travelled to Chester from Nantwich to be married at Thomas Errington/Samuel Cooper Scott's church I need to establish whether the shared name of Scott is actually the same family or just a happy coincidence. I am unsure how to proceed with this. Many thanks. Susan Tomkinson nee Thrower.

Maybe Richard Scott simply knew the curate Thomas, and perhaps Thomas was godfather to the first of your Scotts to bear the name Errington, and the name was then passed on for that reason alone. However, it sounds much more likely that Richard and Thomas were related, as you suspect, so if you trace both their lines of ancestry back you will hopefully find a connection. Clergymen are quite easy to trace, as you can look up the records of their university education (the universities which were extant at the time all have published alumni volumes), and these will provide the age and father's name. If the father was a clergyman, you can look them up in turn, and so on.

John Biggs 2013/11/19 09:06:01 PM

is there an easier way for me to confirm an ancestor died in australia without having to purchase the death certificate first. Both the parents name on the record match what i have but im not sure if it is the correct person. Please help

I'd say that purchasing the death certificate would be by far the easiest way of establishing the truth here! You might circumvent this by looking for a newspaper report of his death here, or a will of his being proved here (it would say where he died) - I doubt that would be cheaper and it certainly wouldn't be easier.

Joan Thurston 2013/11/19 09:04:49 PM

Hi Anthony. My G Grandfather, Richard John Thomas( b1856) is said to have been a stand in at official events for Edward V11 , probably when he was a prince rather than King. Richard was middle class,and owned businesses in London, and it is known that the prince mixed with middle class people and traders, how can I find out if this is true?

That's the second rather surprising question of the evening. Does the story perhaps indicate that Richard looked like Edward, and was perhaps even mistaken for him? Presumably, Edward didn't employ someone to impersonate him - or did he? You could try looking at biographies of Edward to see if this was mentioned. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine what such a stand-in would actually do. For the record, the records of employees of the Royal Household are on the Find My Past website. A very curious question!