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Plaw/Claxton

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 12:11

I am rather confused, can someone be registered as being in two different places . Re 1911 census I have Katie Plaw being in Gravesend Kent with her husband and family, yet she is also registered as being Katie Claxton her maiden name as being in Grays Essex.. with her parents. Also have a problem with the parents of Katie Claxton, it appeared that they didn't marry until 1894 , yet Katie Claxton b 1883 and brother James Claxton b 1891. Found both on Freebmd with the name Claxton, and their mother was Williams. I found the banns for James Thomas Claxton and Catherine Williams, states batchelor and spinster, which I find so odd that they married 10 years after Katie was born yet she had the official name of Claxton. Surely it would be unusual for a couple to live together in those days if both single. Any ideas please.

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:18

Single people would live together as man and wife regardless of the era. We've all probably have examples in our trees where they didn't bother to make if official until many years later. Both were free to marry. Perhaps in your case, one set of parents didn't 'approve'?

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:24

for our benefit

Katie Plaw
Age in 1911: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Kennington Lane, London, England
Civil Parish: Gravesend

County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address: 1 Wingfield Rd, Gravesend, Kent
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 8
Estimated Marriage Year: 1903
Registration district: Gravesend
Registration District Number: 44
Sub-registration district: Gravesend
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 202
Piece: 3827
Household Members:
Name
Harry William Plaw 34
Katie Plaw 27
William James Plaw 6
Lilian Catherine Plaw 4
James Thomas Plaw 2
Ellen Margaret Plaw 6/12

Katie Claxton
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Kensington, Surrey
Civil Parish: Little Thurrock

County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: No3 Rosedale Road, Little Thurrock, Essex
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Orsett
Registration District Number: 192
Sub-registration district: Grays
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 169
Piece: 9962
James Thomas Claxton 57
Catherine Claxton 57
Katie Claxton 28
James Claxton 20

Perhaps she was visiting?? It was just a quick trip across the Thames by Ferry
In some instance the householder misunderstood the instructions and wrote down the names of all their children, both living and deceased.
In her husband's case, he might have completed the census to list the people who normally lived there even if they were away for the night.

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 12:25

Thank you Detective, I did wonder. Just that there were 2 Catherine Williams born 1883 St Just Cornwall and I found a Catherine Williams born St Just who married a William Williams and they had children so wondered if she could possibly left the family and went to live in London then married James T Claxton

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:27

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
34, Tyers Street, Lambeth, London, England

James Thomas Clayton Head Married Male 27 1854 Labourer Timber Yard Swaffham, Norfolk,
Catherine Clayton Wife Married Female 27 1854 - St Just, Cornwall,

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:29

A tree on Ancestry has James previously married: I don't know how accurate it is

ame: James Thomas Claxton
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Birth Date: 1853
Marriage Date: 19 Oct 1874
Marriage Place: Milton-Next-Gravesend, Kent, England
Father: James Thomas Claxton
Spouse: Fanny Frances Butcher
FHL Film Number: 992513
Reference ID: p 17

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:30

Could this have something to do with the delayed marriage?

UK, Military Deserters, 1812-1927
James Claxton
Age: 22
Birth Year: Abt 1854
Birth Place: Swaffham, Norfolk
Desertion Date: 28 Feb 1876
Desertion Place: Maidstone
Publication Date: 10 Mar 1876
Regimental Number: 7348
Military Corps: West Kent

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 12:31

I know I will have to get the marriage certificate of James T Claxton and Catherine Williams to find who the parents are of Catherine Williams. Apparently there are 2 St Justs in different areas of Cornwall.

Dea

Dea Report 10 Dec 2016 12:34

Well, this looks like Harry William on 1939 and he is with a 'Blanche' :

1939:
Plaw Household (2 People) 7 Alfred Road , Gravesend M.B., Kent, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Harry W Plaw 17 May 1877 General Labourer
Blanche L Plaw 14 Feb 1866 Unpaid Domestic Duties

They married in 1924:

Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)
Bell Blanche L Plaw Gravesend 2a 1517
Plaw Harry W Bell Gravesend 2a 1517

Dea x

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 12:39

I had found the desertion and dismissed him, never thought of the delay of a marriage. I had also wondered Austin about the marriage of James T Claxton to Fanny Butcher in 1874 but kind of dismissed it when I found Kate Claxton his daughter had Williams as her mother. Just thought James could have left Fanny and went to live in London with Catherine Williams. The mind boggles

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:41

There was a possible child to the 1874 marriage- but I don't see him on the census:

CLAXTON, EDWARD CHARLES (Mother's maiden name BUTCHER )
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in ORSETT Volume 04A Page 215

First name(s) Edward Charles
Last name Claxton
Birth year 1877
Birth date ? ? 1877
Baptism year 1877
Baptism date 12 Aug 1877
Place West Tilbury
County Essex
Mother's first name(s) Fanny
Father's first name(s) James Thomas
Source St.James West Tilbury 1813-1880 baptisms

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 12:45

Dea, that could possibly be a 2nd marriage for Harry William Plaw, because Katie Plaw died in 1920

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 12:52

Austin, now that's a coincidence because James Thomas Claxton lived at some time over in Grays Essex Orsett being the district. Perhaps he was married before, wasn't divorced so but himself down as being a batchelor in the marriage to Catherine Williams

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 12:55

As I can't see Fanny or son Edward, I think it's likely.

There tended to be reason why couples didn't marry- especially with children on the way.

On the 1874 marriage he lists his father as James Thomas Claxton. Unfortunately I don't see an image of the marriage certificate to see addresses or father's occupation.

I think you would need the certificate to confirm as I note his father on the census is listed as James Parker Claxton. (1871 engine fitter) (1881 timekeeper)

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 13:11

Yes think you may be right, possibly Catherine was also married, as finding one being married to a William Williams and being born in St Just, know women do leave home and leave their children behind.

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 13:19

Interesting that James' parents have a grandson, James Thomas Claxton, living with them in 1881- I think this is likely another son of James Thomas and his first wife Fanny.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
London Road, Strood, North Aylesford, Kent, England

James Parker Claxton Head Married Male 57 1824 Timekeeper Brancaster, Norfolk,
Mary Elizabeth Claxton Daughter Single Female 21 1860 - Swaffham, Norfolk,
John Parker Claxton Son Single Male 18 1863 Engineer Swaffham, Norfolk,
James Thomas Claxton Grand Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Gravesend, Kent,
Frederick John Baker Lodger Single Male 18 1863 Engine Turner Borstal, Kent,
Samuel Jukes Lodger Single Male 24 1857 Iron Moulder Frome, Somerset, England
---------------------------------------

Note the maiden name- very close to Butcher:-

GRO ref:

CLAXTON, JAMES THOMAS (mother's maiden name: BUTCHARD )
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in GRAVESEND Volume 02A Page 410

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 13:25

If this is the Catherine you mean I don't think she's connected to your Catherine.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Baptist Square, Llanwonno, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales

William Williams Head Married Male 35 1846 Labourer Cornwall, England
Catherine Williams Wife Married Female 27 1854 - St Just, Cornwall, England
Sarah A Williams Daughter Single Female 7 1874 - Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Margaret Williams Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
William J Williams Son Single Male 1 1880 - Ystrad, Glamorgan, Wales
---------------------------

And this is your Catherine in 1881 (mistranscibed as Clayton)

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
34, Tyers Street, Lambeth, London, England

James Thomas Clayton Head Married Male 27 1854 Labourer Timber Yard Swaffham, Norfolk,
Catherine Clayton Wife Married Female 27 1854 - St Just, Cornwall,

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 13:28

Just looking at all the above posts, here is a possibility, James Thomas Claxton came down from Norfolk , joined the Army in Kent, married Fanny Butcher in Gravesend in 1974, could have been stationed at the Barracks in Gravesend. James deserted in Feb 1976 by this time Fanny was having a baby, which was born in Orsett late 1976 who was baptised over in Tilbury in 1877, the father was named but not present because he was on the run. James eventually went to London and met Catherine, couldn't marry her straight away because he was still married to Fanny. Wow this could be the case

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Dec 2016 13:31

I think if you ordered the birth cert for James Thomas Claxton b1875 (maiden name Butchard), I think this would confirm James and Fanny as parents.

James Thomas Calxton was the first child

Edward Charles Claxton the second child

John

John Report 10 Dec 2016 13:41

Just seen the post of James Clayton and Catherine Clayton, living in Lambeth now that was before Katie and James were born in Lambeth, obviously they couldn't have been married just living together in 1881.