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Can someone please help me to identify the enumeration district for Roscoe/Ruscoe Street West ham Essex.
On the 181n it is enumeration district 13, but on the earlier one the districts do not go up to 13.
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In 1911 it's enumeration is 32
http://tinyurl.com/nmspxy7
Edit: I'm not at all sure but did the enumeration districts grow and so, 32 in 1911?
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I can't find Roscoe Street before 1871.
Kath. x
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Thanks for looking.
Bother, I was hoping to search around the neighborhood.
My grt grt grandparents listed Roscoe Street, Plaistow Marsh west ham as their address when they married in 1854.
Thanks again
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Hadn't though of that, thanks I'll check
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In this post, I'll address the problem of getting a contemporary map for Roscoe St.
I go to a modern map, viz http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ and search for Roscoe Street - just a hit in the Barbican.
So now I go to Ancestry's 1881:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7572
and search in location=West Ham, Essex, England with keyword=Roscoe.
Here's one of the hits
1881 England Census
Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 102 Roscoe St
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13a
Piece: 1713 Folio: 25 Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Street 46 Edmonton, Middlesex, England Head
Frederick Street 16 Tottenham, Middlesex, England Son
George Street 14 Tottenham, Middlesex, England Son
William Street 12 N Woolwich, Essex, England Son
Elizabeth Street 10 N Woolwich, Essex, England Daughter
Ancestry don't normally transcribe the addy (nor the occupation), but if you check their sourcenotes, you'll see Ancestry didn't transcribe the 1881:
Appreciation is expressed to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for providing the 1881 England and Wales Census Index.
FS (i.e., the LDS) were the first to transcribe any UK census - they actually did them all - well Ireland was lost, but Scotland was never online for free - you can buy a cheap transcription (25p) from SP, or they sold it on disks - no longer available (nor compatible with my PC).
Here's their hit:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQZQ-TT9
However, FS now use FMP's transcriptions. FS's original transcriptions did make one sytematic error - they always assign the census ref of the head's image (RG11/1713/25/27 here) to the whole household, whether they're on the same page or not (the Street h/h is on 1 image).
Now we must find a neighbour's addy that does appear on a modern map.
Fortunately there's one on this page (Forty Acre Lane).
So look up Forty Acre Lane, and you get taken to some URL which shows the map.
Embedded in the URL are the OS coordinates of the arrowhead, viz:
x=540065&y=181628&
The first measures the easting in metres from the datum point, and the second measures the northing.
The datum point is abt 135km W of Land's End, & abt 25km S of it.
It's set there so everywhere in GB gets positive coords.
(The Scilly Isles fix the northing datum line, & St Kilda & Soay fix the easting datum line.)
Now go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html and search for these coords.
Select the 1869 1:2500 scale map - it's the smallest scale that's really practical - the 6" map (1:10560) is really too small a scale to be useful, I find.
Roscoe St is in the extreme SW corner of this rectangular window, so lets centre it.
Decrease the easting by 365 metres, and decrease the northing by 328 m, and search for 539700,181300
To see where I centred the map, search for the 13 character string 539700,181300 on Streetmap. The arrowhead is on the W end of Roscoe St - at a 4-way junction with Hallsville Rd, Shirley St, & Rathbone St.
So it seems Ruscoe Rd is a renaming of Roscoe St - that's what meets the other 3 in 1869
Now lets look at the 1869 town plans - these are at a larger scale (1:1056, i.e., 60" to the mile).
There's a P.H. (public house, NB P.W.=place of worship) on the corner of Hallsville & Shirley.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1127959
(Pubs & churches are the easiest things to find pics of.)
I think the photographer is standing in Hallsville Rd; Sirley St has 3 cars in it; Roscoe St has one cut off car on it.
If you're going to swan around the neighbourhood in the early censuses, then the old map is invaluable.
EDIT I should have said - zoom levels 1 & 2 are street maps; zoom levels 3 & 4 are OS style topographical maps - the blue grid lines there are 1km apart - also zoom levels 2 & 3 are the same degree of zoom.
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Wow, thank you
I'l go and look shortly
Many many thanks again
jeanette
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Shelly - GR doesn't handle long hyphenless URLs very well.
If you post one it pushes out the right margin.
You ought to use something like http://tinyurl.com/ to get something you can post.
Try clicking on this example that I got from tinyurl:
http://tinyurl.com/pgjebps
[It gets the URL of a GRO booklet which has examples of pre-1969 BMD certs near end.]
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The job of a typical enumerator was:
1) A few days before census night (always Sun midnight) to go round his district dropping off blank forms.
2) On the Mon after census night, to go round and pick up the completed forms, helping folk fill them in when necessary.
3) to make call backs where necessary
4) To copy details from the completed forms onto the summary sheets we can see today.
Obviously, there's a limit to how much an enumerator can do in a day.
I've seen a GRO memo (or somesuch) saying that EDs should be limited to 15 miles of travel, and 200 households (or 300 - I forget - one would also have tomake allowances for ional variations in literacy London was much better than Wales back then).
So if a place like West Ham has a large population growth, then it would naturally lead to more EDs.
Also, EDs are numbered seperately in each subdistrict, so increasing the number of subdistricts also affects ED numbering.
Finally, 1861-1901, blocks of consecutive EDs are grouped into pieces. The piece #s are unique for all of England & Wales. They start numbering in the London area and increase going outwards, with the north getting the highest English piece #s, then come the Welsh pieces.
Here are the 1871 piece #s for West Ham:
West Ham RD 1871 RG10
Stratford 1623-1626
West Ham 1627-1633
Leyton 1634-1635
Walthamstow 1636-1637
RG10/1625 Number not used
Here are 1901:
West Ham RD 1901 RG13
Stratford 1562-1567
Plaistow 1568-1577
Canning Town 1578-1586
Forest Gate 1587-1594
East Ham 1595-1607
Wanstead 1608
South Leyton 1609-1615
North Leyton 1616-1622
Walthamstow 1623-1636
Earlier, I talked abt "job of a typical enumerator" - there also was a special class of enumerators, namely master of instutions or vessels.
These might not be assigned an ED #, or several might be grouped under one ED - practice varied with year.
There's also an explicit listing of EDs 1841-1901 online for Leigh RD (just NW of Manchester). It gives quite a clear picture of how EDs were structured.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Leigh/index.html [and click on the "Censuses" link]
In 1911, Roscoe St appears in EDs 25, 27 & 32 of the Canning Town subdistrict.
It makes me think the EDs ran N-S, and an E-W street like Roscoe must cut across 3 of them.
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Thanks to Ken & Shelley for the URLs - most interesting,
Actually, anyone can search FMP which does transcribe the addy. Go to:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-united-kingdom-records-in-census-land-and-surveys
browse the Record collection and check census, then select 1911 England, Wales & Scotland as the Record set, enter Where as Britain, West Ham, & the street roscoe, then search.
There are 519 hits, like:
Last name First name Born Died Event Record set Location
Aldridge Isabella Emma 1870 — 1871 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census West Ham, Essex, England
That's all I get to see for free. However, you can search for her on Ancestry - she's in piece # 1632.
A couple of weeks ago, FreeCEN put its transcriptions for 4 pieces (1628-1631) from 1871 West Ham online.
http://www.freecen.org.uk/statistics.html
One can search there in West Ham 1871 with street = roscoe*
There are 143 hits, all in ED15 in piece # 1631, so like 1911, Roscoe St is split over EDs.
Here's a couple of hits from:
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
871 Census
Piece: RG10/1631 Place: West Ham -Essex Enumeration District: 15
Civil Parish: West Ham Ecclesiastical Parish: West Ham
Folio: 49 Page: 97 Schedule: 644
Address: 25 Roscoe Street
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
SKITTRELL Mary Head W F 59 Nurse London - Westminster
SKITTRELL James Son U M 21 Ship Yard Labourer Essex - Canning Town
SKITTRELL Frances Dau U F 18 Servant Essex - Canning Town
SKITTRELL Alfred P Son - M 10 Scholar Essex - Canning Town
1871 Census
Piece: RG10/1631 Place: West Ham -Essex Enumeration District: 15
Civil Parish: West Ham Ecclesiastical Parish: West Ham
Folio: 43 Page: 86 Schedule: 567
Address: Hallsville Tavern
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BARFORD Charles Head M M 30 Licensed Victualler London - Islington
BARFORD Annie Wife M F 30 London - Shadwell
Now what's nice abt FreeCEN is each of the above displays has a couple of buttons on the screen.
Clicking on the previous button a few times gets me to a recognizable street.
Clicking on both the previous & next buttons a few times in the 2nd case again gets me to recognizable streets.
I find this quicker than paging thru the images.
Lots of times, there are no suitable FreeCEN hits to start from, so here's how to browse thru the addy's on the 1881 Ancestry transcriptions.
In the Elizabeth Street example I gave in my first post, the key info is:
Piece: 1713 Folio: 25 Page Number: 27
Ancestry lets me search by piece, folio, and page #.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7572
To cut down on duplicated addy's, pick relationship to head as Head.
I enter the piece #, and the folio # (no page #) and search
The folio # was stamped on the odd pages using an increasing stamper just before filming. The stamper was only reset for a fresh piece, so it serves to distinguish page 1s (say) from difft EDs.
The folio # applies to the stamped page and the page on its back, so omitting the page # lets me get 2 pages at once.
Just altering the folio # by one each time gets me a fresh batch of addy's to check for a recognizable modern street.
On Ancestry, just hovering over the View record link reveals the addy, so this part of the proceeedure is pretty quick.
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All I can say is WOW, thanks all of you, I have learned such a lot.
<3
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