Genealogy Chat

Hi, just wondering if anyone can help me. My great great great grandad Henry Halling B: 1887 in Tewkesbury was illegitimate. I have identified his mother (from birth certificate) as Jane Halling. From census I've found her to be born c1864. Her parents are James Halling B: 1825 in Dumbleton and Jane Leech B: 1822. The problem I'm having is on the 1891 census James and Jane had 4 grandchildren but I can't find any census records for James or either Janes for 1861, 1871 or 1881. Meaning I can't work out if Jane was their only daughter and if so, how did she have 3 more children ?! Henry was born in the workhouse in Tewkesbury.
Just wondering if any if you clever people have any idea where I can look next to try and find out if james and jane had anymore children? I'm going to order the 4 grand children's birth certificates but at £9 a time not ordering them all in one go!
Thank you

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Teddington Hands Tarn, Overbury, Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, England
Print household transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Hawling Head - Male 47 1824 - Gloucestershire, England
Image Transcription
Jane Hawling Wife - Female 49 1822 - Worcestershire, England
Image Transcription
Thomas Hawling Son - Male 12 1859 - Gloucestershire, England
Image Transcription
George Hawling Son - Male 8 1863 - Worcestershire, England
Image Transcription
Jane Hawling Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Worcestershire, England
Image Transcription
Charles Peart Boarder - Male 15 1856 - Gloucestershire, England

Lived in Tewkesbury but born in Worcestershire:

1871

Name: Jane Thawling
[Jane Halling]
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Thawling
Mother's name: Jane Thawling
Gender: Female
Where born: Teddington, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Overbury
Town: Teddington
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Overbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 2677
Folio: 21
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
James Thawling 47 b. Dumbleton
Jane Thawling 49 b. Broadway, Worcs.
Thomas Thawling 12 b. Beckford, Glos.
George Thawling 8 b. Teddington, Worcs.
Jane Thawling 6 b. Teddington, Worcs.
Charles Peurt 15 Boarder

Thank you so much. I was just searching Hawling and found it. It's taken me hours and hours so far! (Jumps for joy and does a little dance!) :-D

Thomas in 1881 already married to another Jane

Name: Thomas Halling
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Halling
Gender: Male
Where born: Tirley, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Tewkesbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address: Manns Court
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Waterman
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Tewkesbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 2578
Folio: 17
Page Number: 27
Thomas Halling 22
Jane Halling 21
Emma Halling 3 <<<<< one grandchild

from the 1891 Census ............ the 3 grandchildren


Name Age
James Halling 57 b.ca 1834, Buckland, Gloucestershire, Shepherd <<<<< he is 67 on the image
Jane Halling 69 b.ca 1822, Broadway, Gloucestershire
Arthur Halling 10 .ca 1881, Teddington, Worcestershire
Annie A Halling 7 b.ca 1884, Lewkesby, Gloucestershire
Harry Halling 3 b.ca 1888, Lewkesby

Arthur was apparently born in 1879 ................ so should be on the 1881 Census :-)


Births Sep 1879 (>99%)
Halling Arthur Francis Tewkesbury 6a 456



but I can't find him, anymore than I can find the others!

HALLING Anne A HALLING 1883 Cheltenham Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury 24 146

HALLING Henry HALLING 1887 Cheltenham Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury 26 268

(two of Grandchildren)

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx

(from above)

Chris :)


HALLING Arthur F HALLING HALLING DARKE 1879 Cheltenham Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury 21 315

(is that Arthur above?, Darke Maiden name of Mother)

Marriages Jun 1875 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Darke Rosena Tewkesbury 6a 767
Halling William Tewkesbury 6a 767

1891
William Halling Head Married Male 39 1852 Stone Merchant & Barge Owner Apperley, Gloucestershire, England
Rose Halling Wife Married Female 42 1849 - Twyning, Gloucestershire, England
Tom Halling Son Single Male 14 1877 Scholar Twyning, Gloucestershire, England
Arthur Francess Halling Son Single Male 12 1879 Scholar Twyning, Gloucestershire, England
Parish Twyning
City Tewkesbury
County Gloucestershire
Registration district Tewkesbury
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 2049
Folio 128
Page 8

Birth
HALLING Amy E HALLING 1890 Cheltenham Cheltenham, Cheltenham 108 22

(1901 Amy Halling Grand Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England with James and Jane!)

Chris :)

http://www.tewkesburyhistory.com/bmdha.html

Tewkesbury and District Deaths
Halling Amy E
Birth 1891 Death Jun 1906

Thanks everyone. I know for definite Henry/Harry was born in 1887 to Jane Halling, who was single and in the workhouse. (From birth cert). It would appear that in 1881 she was living with her parents as a single 16 year old girl with her son Arthur. In between these two sons it looks like she had Annie in 1884 and Amy later in 1891. It looks like she never married. Do any of you know if it was common to be single and have so many children?! I'm thinking not, I wish I knew her story :-)

Census are snapshots in time - for all we know she may have been co-habiting or having an affair with a man who wasn't free to marry her, ;-)

Or the other grandchildren could have been from Jane's siblings. It dos'nt say she was the mother of the others. The only way to really see if she was their mother is to buy their birth certs.

1881 (Find My Past)
James Hauling Head Married Male 56 1825 General Lab Worcestershire, England
Jean Hauling Wife Married Female 58 1823 - Broadway, Worcestershire, England
Jean Hauling Daughter Single Female 16 1865 General Servant (Out Of Employ) Teddington, Worcestershire, England
Arthur Hauling Grand Son Single Male 0 1881 - Teddington, Worcestershire, England (2 mo on image)
Parish Teddington (Worcs)
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Registration district Tewkesbury
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 2580
Folio 36
Page 4

(is above who you mean 1881?)

Chris :)

Births Mar 1881 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
HAWLING Arthur Tewkesbury 6a 478

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Beckford, Winchcomb, Gloucestershire, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Hauling Head Married Male 26 1825 Shepherd Buckland, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Jane Hauling Wife Married Female 29 1822 Shopkeeper Broadway, Worcestershire, England
Transcription
James Hauling Son - Male 2 1849 - Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Samuel Hauling Son - Male 0 1851 - Beckford, Gloucestershire, England

Is this the child from 1881 census with Thomas and Jane?

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HALLING Emma HALLING HALLING ORGAN 1880 Cheltenham Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury 22

????

Gloucestershire BMD Indexes
Advanced Birth Search

Home Search Criteria

Criteria entered: Surname: halling, Maiden name: leech, Year From: 1851, Year To: 1861,

Number of entries matching criteria entered: 3
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HALLING John HALLING HALLING LEECH 1858 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 6 16
HALLING Mary C HALLING HALLING LEECH 1856 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 5 253
HALLING Thomas HALLING HALLING LEECH 1858 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 6 17

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry

HALLING Arthur F HALLING HALLING DARKE 1879 Cheltenham Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury 21 315

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
HALLING William DARKE Rosina Cheltenham Twyning St Mary Magdalene 1875 1 193

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
HALLING James LEECH Jane Cheltenham Dumbleton St Peter 1847 1 25


Beckford and Dumbleton are within a few miles of each other

Nicola .......


it was by no means uncommon to have a number of illegitimate children at that time


Just as common-law marriages were far more common than most people think.


I sometimes think it was far more common then than it was, say, through the 1900s up until the 1960s or 70s!


Divorce was impossible unless you were very rich, and there were only a couple of reasons .................. so couples would just separate, and then meet up with new partners, but be unable to marry, or become bigamists.



My own gr aunt was born in 1841, and had 5 illegitimate children between 1857 and 1873.

She never married, and lived at home with her mother, who raised the children until her death in 1898, while gt aunt worked in a cotton mill. Then gt aunt had to take care of the youngest.



and I've found many other cases when looking for other people.



It was also far from uncommon for women to have 1 or more illegitimate children before they married ...................... in many areas, for example farming communities, a woman who was already pregnant or had children showed that she was fecund, and children would be born to take care of the old people.



The children might be fathered by different men ........... but the impossibility of divorce could mean that many were born to couples who might otherwise have married.

and then you always have to consider the upper / lower class divide ............. where a man may have fallen in love with a girl from a much lower class who he could not marry but who he set up in a house of her own.

That's in addition to the number of servants who were impregnated by their masters or masters' sons



But that of course means that we will never be able to find the father(s) of the children ................... unless the child has been baptised and the vicar made a note in the margin of the Parish Register as to the name of the father, OR there is a family bible in which the name has been written.

A second name may indicate the possible name of the father.