Genealogy Chat

My wife's aunt has a letter from James Barnes dated 20/12/1817, he was an Indigo Planter in Naprah District of Purneah. It has been translated to modern text by a retired school teacher in Torquay, she made a botch of the family history side, but did a fantastic job. I believe the letter is from my wife's great great great great grandfather. On Ancestry I believe his son was Christened at St Sepulchre, London on 5 june 1785, birth 13 May 1785. My question is how do I get to see the original FHL Film Number 375001, I do have free six months worldwide membership, but never had any help when I have contacted them via e-mail would they help or are there other routes.

Do you have an LDS Family history centre near you? If you don't know you can check on locations of the centres here:-

https://familysearch.org/locations/

You would be able to order a copy of the film from there for a small sum and they will keep it for you for about a month to give you the chance to call in and view it.

Kath. x

Kath,

Thank you, I have one only 13 miles south of me in Preston and will ring them tomorrow. I learn something new after 3 years of research and I thought I was pretty good now! I'll have to look at some more of the early references.

Out of interest will these films contain any more info, for a record that old?

I'm not sure. You may get an address if you're lucky but not much more I don't think.

I have had a couple of baptism records where it gives the child's name and then says something like........second son of, or first daughter of, which means you can work out whether or not there are other children.

Kath. x

Transcription from Ancestry

Name: James Barnes
Baptism Date: 5 Jun 1785
Parish: St Sepulchre, Holborn
County: London
Borough: City of London
Parent(s): James Barnes,
Sarah Barnes
Record Type: Baptism
Register Type: Parish Register

Original -
James son of James and Sarah Barnes of St John Street Born (?May) 13th

EDIT - PM sent with original of baptism attached - is that what you are hoping to get from the Family search film?

Thank you for the replies. It gives me more to pass onto the school teacher and see if she can revisit her facts discovered on her holiday to India. James fathers letter refers to an older brother Richard and she believes they are those listed in the Bengal Directory Part VIII a list of the British East Indian & Foreign Inhabitants of Calcutta and the Upper Provinces" James Barnes Indigo planter and brother Richard Barnes Timer Merchant, Purneah 1795. But I cannot yet see any record of a Richard with this couple, the facts going forward thou I'm 90% certain this is the right son of James and his father being the letter writer. His (son) ends up a schoolmaster and moves to the Midlands and has children in Castle Bromwich. The letter writer never returned to the UK but the teacher thinks he was sent to court for unpaid loans in 1836 and this was reported in the Calcutta Monthly.

Have you tried to Google his name???

for example ................. by googling

Calcutta Monthly Journal and General Register ...
https://books.google.ca/books?id=px0YAAAAYAAJ
1837
William Duff and James Barnes- Mr. Leiih opened the pleadings. ... is a member of the civil service, the defendants are indigo planters at Purneah, and the action .....


a full report of the court case

I googled

James Barnes, Indigo Planter


and there are a number of references to him


similarly

Richard Barnes, timber merchant, purneah


Full page fax print - DSpace
dspace.wbpublibnet.gov.in:8080/.../Part%208_Chapter%201_401-448p....
BRITISH, EAST INDIAN 8:. FOREIGN imbaiaitauts ut' @ ... A en, James, Asst. to J. Killi'vink, senior Nauthpore, Purneah. Ambrose, D. W. Assistant ... Barnes. R , Kinsengunge. Barnes, Richard, Timber Merchant, Purneah. Barnett, William, Pay ...


only one of several references.


NOTE:- it is TIMBER, not timer!! :-)

Exeter and Plymouth Gazette - Friday 03 November 1865

DEATHS
BARNES- Oct 21 at Torquay, Frances, wife of Richard Barnes, formerly of Purneah, Bengal, aged 77
-----------------------------------------------------

Marriage:
Name Richard Barnes
Spouse's Name Frances Howes
Event Date Dec 1806
Event Place Purnea, Bengal, India
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M75002-2
System Origin India-ODM
GS Film number 498609
--------------------------------------------------------------

Them in 1861?
Name: Richard Barnes
Age: 85
Estimated Birth Year: 1776
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Frances Barnes
Gender: Male
Where born: Hornsey, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Tormoham
Town: Torquay
County/Island: Devon
Registration district: Newton Abbot
Sub-registration district: Torquay
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 6
Piece: 1412 Folio: 31 Page Number: 2
Name Age
Richard Barnes 85
Frances Barnes 72
--------------------------------------------------

Bengal Directory- List of British Inhabitants 1838
James Barnes Indigo Planter, Rojpore Tirhoot
J Barnes Asst. Planter Goruckpore
R Barnes Kissengunge
Richard Barnes Timber Merchant Purneah

-----------------------------------------------
East India Directory 1828- European Inhabitants
R. Barnes Timber Merchant Purnea
----------------------------------------------------------

Allen's Indian Mail 1845
DEATHS
Barnes Mr Jas. at Purneah aged 64 Oct 19

Familysearch.org also shows a number of Children for Richard and Francis.plus their marriages.

Miscellaneous : European inhabitants in Bengal

Family Name Barnes
Forenames Richard
Employment Indigo Planter
Year Arrived India 1800


General Register of Europeans not in the service of His Majesty or the Honble Company residing within the Territories immediately dependent on the Presidency of Fort William transcribed from the reports furnished by the several Magistrates.

Family Name Barnes
Forenames Richard
District Residence Zillah of Purneah
Place Residence Bysah
Native Place England
Employment Indigo Pla the Crown 1805" Year Arrived India 1800
Authority to reside Permission of the Governor General in Council
Date of local licence 8 March 1804
Period Residence in district 3 years

(above, if anything else, from below)

http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php

(Families in British India Society)

Chris :)

Hi Andy,

What evidence do you have that James, indigo planter, who wrote the letter in 1817 was married to Sarah and had a son James in London 1885?

For reference, if anyone wants to pick this up, this is Andy's James in 1851:

Name: James Barnes
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1785
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Barnes
Gender: Male
Where born: Selington, Middlesex, England (Original: Islington)
Civil Parish: Aston
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Castle Bromwich
County/Island: Warwickshire
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Erdington
ED, institution, or vessel: 6b
Household schedule number: 1a
Piece: 2062 Folio: 315 Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
James Barnes 66 Schoolmaster
Jane Barnes 36 Wife, Warwickshire
Mary Jane Barnes 7
William Barnes 6

Andy- there's something not right in the info you've given (unless I'm looking at the wrong record)- James is listed as born 1805 in later census (Suspect 1851 is a transcription error):

1871
Name: James Barnes (School master)
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Barnes
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: Castle Bromwich
Town: Castle Bromwich
County/Island: Warwickshire
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Erdington
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Household schedule number: 116
Piece: 3160 Folio: 24 Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
James Barnes 66 Schoolmaster, Islingotn
Jane Barnes 56 Wife, Lockley, Warwickshire
William Barnes 26
Phoebe Weekets 16
Mary C Powell 10
Eliza Powell 5
Edward Towell 4
-----------------------------------------------------

Marriage:

Name: James Barnes
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 8 Jul 1841
Marriage Age: Full Age
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Jane Hitchman
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Marriage Age: Full Age
Father: James Barnes (Indigo Planter)
Spouse's Father: Joseph Hitchman
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: M85
------------------------------------

Burial:
Name: James Barnes
Birth Year: abt 1805
Parish: Castle Bromwich
Burial Date: 22 Jan 1880
Burial Age: 75

07 January 1841 - Morning Post - London, London, England

At Calcutta, on .the 27th October, at the cathedral by the Venerable Archdeacon Dealtry, R. Loughan, Esq. civil service, to Frances, daughter of Richard Barnes, Esq, Purneah.

(relating?)

Chris :)

Thank you for all the replies. I was aware Richard was a Timber merchant, my typo error. The answers are starting to clear the picture, my assumption of James the school master being born in 1785 was based on the 1851 census below he is also 66, he must have been 46. The 1871 census also says he is 66 but would start to link up the facts correctly in the letter. he was alive on his sons William wedding certificate and profession stated of schoolmaster in 1877. The letter says he followed his brother Richard to India and was in his 9th year so set off 1808. He is writing to his mother whose letter has arrived 5 years since he last had a letter. He talks about his wife Esther and concerned if she is still alive and asks about his son. A James Barnes was born 1st Dec 1804 at St Luke, Old Street, Finsbury to James & Esther. 2 miles from centre of Islington. I think this must be the correct James now. The link to Richard his brother would be nice to try and confirm. It would be amazing as my wifes aunt is retired in Torquay from Birmingham. Would love to know how you can see 1841 marriage father profession Indigo planter.


1851 census
Name:
James Barnes
Age:66
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1785
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name:Jane Barnes
Gender: Male
Where born:Selington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Aston
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town:Castle Bromwich
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image
Registration district:Aston

Sub-registration district:Erdington

ED, institution, or vessel: 6b

Neighbors: View others on page

Household schedule number: 1a

Piece:2062

Folio:315

Page Number: 1

Household Members: Name Age

James Barnes 66
Jane Barnes 36
Mary Jane Barnes 7
William Barnes 6

Warwickshire Ancestors Project — 1841
(Transcript of Piece HO107/1150(Aston)

http://www.hunimex.net/warwick/freecens/1841/41150a.html

Castle Bromwich
James Barnes,30,,Schoolmaster,Not in county,
Mary Hitchman,,50,Female Servant,WAR,
Jane Hitchman,,25,,WAR,

Chris :)

HITCHMAN Mary 1841

(Also James posted above 1880)

http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/opc/castlebromwich/prindexg_q.html

(Index of entries in the baptism (christening), marriage and burial registers for surnames) (with contact for more details)

Andy ...........

the marriage record is on ancestry, the full citation is below and you can look at the image of the actual register

Birmingham, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937

Name: James Barnes
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 8 Jul 1841
Marriage Age: Full Age
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Jane Hitchman
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Marriage Age: Full Age
Father: Janes Barnes
Spouse's Father: Joseph Hitchman
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: M85

from image:-

James
Bachelor
Occupation:- School Teacher
Address:- Castle Berwick
Father:- Indigo Planter

Jane
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- Castle Berwick
Father occupation:- Gentleman's Servant

Witnesses:- Abel Taylor and Sarah Wilkins


Just as a matter of interest ........... bride, groom and both witnesses could sign their names. Quite unusual for that period.

"The village school was the ancestor of St Mary & St Margaret's church school....

In 1826 James Barnes was the schoolmaster here; he was paid £60 a year for teaching the children reading, writing and accounts. He was well-loved by the pupils who called his wife 'Mamma Barnes'. "

http://historyofcastlebromwich.jimdo.com/castle-bromwich-through-the-ages/20th-century/schools/

According to Parliamentary Papers, House of Commons and Command, Volume 21, Part 2 (Google books) James was appointed at the school in January 1826.

Possibly Esther?? Although too many to know for sure!

1841:
Name: Esther Barnes
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1781
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Islington West
Hundred: Ossulstone (Finsbury Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington West
Piece: 665 Book: 3 Folio: 11 Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Esther Barnes 60
Elizth Mostoo 16 (Image looks like Morton)
Robscum Mostoo 15
Willm Mostoo 13
Thos Mostoo 12
--------------------------------------------

And burial?
Name: Esther Barnes
Birth Year: abt 1785
Burial Age: 63
Burial Date: 15 Oct 1848
Burial Place: Islington, Middlesex, England
Church: New Bunhill Fields Burial Ground