Genealogy Chat

My grandfather was born Gervase Valentine Lincoln in Lysons Road,Aldershot.He was given for adoption,I have phoned the councils in that area to see if they had any records of these informal adoptions.They don't hold any records pre 1927.I have his birth certificate.He was adopted by a couple from Nottingham who owned a rope and twine works.
A family here in Lincolnshire had lots of Gervase or Valentine or Valentine Gervase,in their family.(Elwes)
I have looked at all the censuses about his real father who was called Gervase Lincoln but cannot find anything.Anyone any ideas,please.Rita

Birth Reg. district Farnham covers Aldershot which is in Hampshire

England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) GERVASE VALENTINE
Last name LINCOLN
Birth year 1898
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District FARNHAM
County Surrey
Country England
Volume 2A
Page 117

What is his actual DOB?

What does his birth cert say about his mother's name/maiden name, and his father's occupation? Was his father in the military?

Is this the family you mean with Gervase and Valentine in their tree in the 1901 census? :-

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
The Manor House, 7, Bigby Street, Glanford Brigg, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Gervase Cary-Elwes Head Married Male 34 1867 D L J P Living On Own Means Northamptonshire, England
Winefride Cary-Elwes Wife Married Female 32 1869 - Flintshire, Wales
Rudolph Cary-Elwes Son - Male 9 1892 - Lincolnshire, England
Guy Cary-Elwes Son - Male 5 1896 - Belgium
Valentine Cary-Elwes Son - Male 2 1899 - Brigg, Lincolnshire, England
Mary Feilding Niece - Female 13 1888 - Ireland
Dorothy Feilding Niece - Female 11 1890 - Warwickshire, England
Samuel Sproston Servant Single Male 22 1879 Tutor Southampton, Hampshire, England
Terisa Flannery Servant Single Female 26 1875 Cook Domestic Ireland
Emily Brock Servant Single Female 35 1866 Nurse Domestic Lincolnshire, England
Mary Hunt Servant Single Female 32 1869 Housemaid Domestic East Hendred, Berkshire, England
Kate Bones Servant Single Female 25 1876 Laundry Maid Domestic Hull, Yorkshire, England 30 1871 Ladys Maid Domestic Lincolnshire, England
Mary Dornacher Servant Single Female 29 1872 Ladys Maid Domestic France
Mabel Hudson Servant Single Female 18 1883 Parlour Maid Domestic Great Bowden, Leicestershire, England
Ellen Gibbs Servant Single Female 20 1881 Kitchen Maid Domestic Hanley Castle, Worcestershire, England
Mary Jolly Servant Single Female 15 1886 Nursery Maid Domestic Northamptonshire, England

Does Gervase Valentine Lincoln's mother have any connection to this family?

Could she have "made up" a name to hide the true facts of his birth or was his father named on the birth certificate? The fact that he was born in Farnham doesn't mean a lot as his mother could have come from anywhere.

My grandmother came from Lincolnshire and when she was disowned by her family for getting pregnant out of wedlock in 1911 she ended up in Farnham in the workhouse and her baby was born there. My grandmother married my grandfather, who was in the army, the following year and her son was known by his surname all his life.

Kath. x

Hello to all of you and Thankyou.It says on birth cert,No.383,twenty fifth January 1898,39,Lysons Road,Aldershot,Hants. Name,Gervase Valentine,Boy. Name of father,Gervase Lincoln. Mother Emily Lincoln,formerly Turner. Occupation of father,General Labourer. Under signature,description,residence of informant,E.Lincoln,Mother,39,Lysons Road,Aldershot. When registered,Nineteenth of February,1898. Registrar,Geo.Klenson.I cannot find a marriage certificate anywhere and phoned the church nearest to Lysons Road but they haven't phoned me back.
I cannot find the father Gervase Lincoln on any census or any military link,so maybe that wasn't his real name. I often wondered if my grandads real mother,got pregnant by a member of the Elwes family,in the army and called the baby Gervase Valentine and used Lincoln as the surname .Possibly ,as from Lincolnshire.He was very happily brought up by the Moseleys and fought in WW1,I have his medals.

The Elwes family own Elsham Hall in Lincolnshire and have these names in their trees.I think they were mainly a Catholic family. My grandad told me he had been adopted and his birth name,which always fascinated me.I never asked how old he was when he was adopted or why. When my grandad married my grandmother,they had one daughter.

Neither of them went to church but for some reason they sent my mother to a convent school in Nottingham.Nobody ever mentioned it and nobody ever asked.

I realise as Kath says that Emily could have come from anywhere, but am just posting this speculative baptism:

Name: Emily Turner
Baptism Date: 25 May 1879
Archive Provided Parish: Farnham, St Andrew
Parish as it Appears: Farnham
Father: William Turner
Mother: Ann Turner
Reference Number: FA/4/4

Father was a labourer. Abode looks something like Factory Gash.

I think this is the same family in 1891. Although the wife is 'Mary', on the actual image it could just as easily be 'Nan', which is interchangeable with Ann.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Factory Yard, Farnham, Surrey, England

William Turner Head Married Male 59 1832 Labourer Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Mary Turner Wife Married Female 56 1835 - Surrey, England
William Turner Son Married Male 29 1862 Labourer Farnham, Surrey, England
Emily Turner Daughter Single Female 12 1879 - Farnham, Surrey, England
Elizabeth R Turner Daughter Single Female 9 1882 - Farnham, Surrey, England
Joseph Warner Lodger Widower Male 65 1826 Labourer Farnham, Surrey, England

I think she is the Emilie Turner here with widowed mother Ann in 1901. Interestingly, Emilie is described as 'married' but still has the surname Turner. The L in Elizabeth L Turner could just as easily be read as R on the census image.


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

48, East Street, Farnham, Surrey, England

Ann Turner Head Widow Female 64 1837 - Farnham, Surrey, England
Emilie Turner Daughter Married Female 22 1879 - Farnham, Surrey, England
Elizabeth L Turner Daughter Single Female 19 1882 - Farnham, Surrey, England

This is totally speculative though.

You say you don't know how old your grandfather was when adopted by the Moseleys - have you been able to find him with them in either or both the 1901 and 1911 censuses? Did he change his forenames as well as his surname?

I can't see any Mos*l*ys with anything to do with ropes in either 1901 or 1911 in Nottinghamshire.

Sullivan family at address in 1901

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
39, Lysons Road, Aldershot (Hants), Farnham, Surrey, England

Daniel Sullivan Head Married Male 47 1854 Hawker London, Middlesex, England
Emily Sullivan Wife Married Female 43 1858 - London, Middlesex, England
Albert Sullivan Son Single Male 17 1884 Hawker London, Middlesex, England
Amos Sullivan Son - Male 15 1886 - London, Middlesex, England
Catherine Sullivan Daughter - Female 14 1887 - London, Middlesex, England
Rosenia Sullivan Daughter - Female 9 1892 - London, Middlesex, England

What name was your grandfather known by? When and where did he marry?

Have you found his mother on any census? Have you found a marriage for her?

Kath. x

Hello,Thankyou everybody.I am not sure who I have answered.The lines Kucinta sent are very promising and I will try to phone the church again on Monday,re his ?mother Emily Turner.
KathleenBell,I have his marriage certificate,He was known as Henry Moseley and was married on 12 March 1930 to my grandmother in the county of , Nottingham and Leicester ,District of Bingham.It says Violet Irene Crosby but on the 1911 census,she is only known as Irene Crosby.14 years.Not Violet.)
His father was stated as John Henry Moseley,Manager in a Rope and Twine factory.Nottingham.
AustenQ.That was very interesting about all the Sullivans living at 39,Lysons Road.That was supposed to be the address that was given at 1898 on my grandads birth cert.
Regards,Rita

Baptism
County Nottinghamshire
Place Nottingham
Church name St Ann
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 30 Oct 1898
Birth date 25 Jan 1898
Person forename Henry
Person sex M
Person abode 6 Beverley St
Father surname MOSELEY

(from below link, if relating, Birthdate matching!)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

edits (Couple below at 8 Beverley Street 1901. occ. Rope Maker. George Clark at 6)

Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mortiboys Thomas Nottingham 7b 456
Staton Elizabeth Naomi Nottingham 7b 456

The nearest Kelly's directory to 1930 is 1910/11. There is a John Henry Moseley in that, shown as a draughtsman, living at Colwyn Villa, Alma Street. He could have progressed to being manager by 1930, at one of the firms shown below.

There is also a Percy Moseley, shown as a Manager, but it doesn't say where!! He lived at 6, Haddon Road.


ROPE & TWINE SPINNERS
& DEALERS.
Brice George H. 20 St. Mary's gate
Coates W. & Sons, Springclose works; 28 Milton street & St. Mary's gate
Hardman, Ingham & Dawson (J. Hingley), 3I-33 Stoney street
Metcalf Joseph, 19 Leen side
Riley Samuel, soa, High pavement
Simpson L. F. & Co. 21 Forman st. & works, Park road, L

The baptism Chris found, for Henry Moseley with same birthdate as Gervase Valentine Lincoln looks exceedingly promising. So looks like he was probably adopted at a young age .

I don't know if 'my' Emily/Emilie is right, just a young girl with the right name in the rightish location, but where is the connection that led the Moseleys to adopting Gervase?

Is the link through his father or his mother, or neither?

(maybe below Company)

Chris :)

17 August 1933 - Nottingham Evening Post - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire

CHARGE AGAINST NOTTINGHAM MOTORIST.
Herbert Edwards Coates, 46, rope and twine manufacturer, of 239, Derby-road, Nottingham, pleaded guilty at the Guildhall to-day to being charge of a motor car...


25 September 1935 - Nottingham Evening Post - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire

COATES & SON'S (HERBERT COATES. * • Proprietor), SPRING CLOSE, LENTON, NOTTINGHAM. Rope and Twine Manufacturers. Established 1840 I have closed my Retail Premises in Nottingham, and am working this business direct from ...”

This looks the family in 1911

1911 Census

Name: John Henry Moseley
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham
Search Photos: Search for 'Nottingham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: White House Old Lenton Nottingham
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Stationary Engine Driver,, Rope and Twine Works <<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Nottingham
Registration District Number: 430
Sub-registration district: Nottingham South West
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Piece: 20491

John Henry Moseley 50
Georgeiana Moseley 50 b.ca 1861, Doncaster, Nottinghamshire <<<< says Yorkshire on image!
Henry Moseley 13 b.ca 1898, Nottingham, Son, Scholar

Married 30 years, 1 child bron

???

A steam driver here, and son Henry said to be born Nottinghamshire...

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

348, St Anns Well Road, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

John H Moseley Head Married Male 38 1863 Steam Engin Driver Nottinghamshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<
Georgiana Moseley Wife Married Female 38 1863 - -
Henry Moseley Son Single Male 3 1898 - Nottinghamshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<

Just the one child, and the couple aren't that young... so did they marry late, or have fertility problems?

EDIT: looks like the same family in that 1911 census posted by Sylvia as I was typing...

and in 1901

1901 Census

Name: John H Moseley
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Georgiana Moseley
Birth Place: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham
Search Photos: Search for 'Nottingham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Nottingham North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 31

Piece: 3176
Folio: 40
Page Number: 5
Household schedule number: 25

John H Moseley 38 Steam Engine Driver
Georgiana Moseley 38
Henry Moseley 3

Address:- 348 St Ann's Well Rd

Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
GARTON Georgeiana Nottingham 7b 625
MOSELEY John Henry Nottingham 7b 625

Chris :)

Deaths Sep 1923 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
MOSELEY Georgiana 60 Nottingham 7b 206