Genealogy Chat

I have discovered that my great grandfather was at an asylum in Coulsdon, Surrey. There are two asylums there: Cane Hill and Netherne, but I don't know which one he was a patient at. The problem is that the records are held at two different records offices: LMA and Surrey History Centre. I know that he would have been admitted 1920-1921. Is there any way I can find out which one he attended? The death certificate only says 'The Hospital Coulsdon'. Thank you for your help Lucia

It ought to be the case that Greater London records are at LMA and Surrey records at the history centre. I think that there was a detached piece of Croydon in Coulsdon, which would explain why the records might be split. Who witnesses the death certificate? Is it an asylum employee? If it was, might they be listed in a directory? A directory might itself describe the two institutions differently. Good luck Brenda

Hi Brenda, the death was registered by a Leslie B Sate. I haven't been able to find out who that was. The certificate states that he was buried in the hospital grounds. Do you know how I could locate his grave? Thank you for your help Lucia

Hi Brenda, I have looked at historical directories site, but I can't find anything on the hospital employee as the latest directories are from 1910s and my great grandfather died in 1952. The death was registered in the district of Surrey Mid Eastern. Do you think that if he had died in the other asylum his death would be registered in a different district? Lucia

Lucia This probably won't help much, but on my Greater London Atlas, Cane Hill is marked to the west of the A23 just south of Chipstead Valley Road, Coulsdon, near Dunstans Wood. Netherne is further south and to the east of the A23 - between Hooley and Old Coulsdon. They are on opposite sites of the boundary between Croydon and Surrey, so I think it more than likely they would be covered by different registration districts as you suggest. Incidentally I went to school in Old Coulsdon - we heard scary stories about both institutions, but I recall going to sing carols at Cane Hill. On the way home I also passed St Lawrences Hospital and Warlingham Park Hospital - all these places were built as "hidden away" asylums and now are either special units, or turned over into housing estates. nell

Hi Nell, thanks for the advice. I now think that he is more likely to have been at Netherne. I was wondering if you knew what sort of information I could find in mental asylum records. Would there be anything about his family,birthplaces etc? How could I locate his grave? Thank you very much for your help Lucia

Lucia I think you will have to contact the Surrey History Centre and see if they can help. As you probably know I had a relative in Broadmoor and all I got from them after sending umpteen photocopied certs to "prove" we were related, I got the date he arrived at Broadmoor and a copy of the Inquest cause of death. They told me they could show me the burial ground, but as he was in an unmarked grave I didn't see the point. I feel sure there must be more records somewhere - he couldn't have been in an asylum for 45 years without some more details surely? nell

Hi Nell, I have e-mailed the Surrey History Centre. I am sorry you didn't get much out of the search. I am hoping there will be some useful information in the records as I really don't know anything about my great grandfather's origins. Thank you for the advice, Lucia

Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier. Sooner or later the bosses will realise how much time I spend on GR! This is from the hospital records database and shows burial records at Croydon Archives. It looks as if the reason the rest of the records are at LMA is because the hospital was administered by Bromley. "Present name Cane Hill Hospital Previous name(s) Cane Hill Asylum (1883 - 1918) Cane Hill Mental Hospital (1918 - 1937) Surrey County Lunatic Asylum Address Brighton Road Coulsdon CR3 3YL Foundation Year 1883 Closed Yes Closure year 1992 Administrative authorities : Administrative authorities Regional Hospital Board (1948-74) South West Metropolitan Hospital Management Committee (1948-74) Cane Hill Regional Health Authority (1974-82) South East Thames Regional Health Authority (1982- ) South East Thames District Health Authority (1974-82) Bromley District Health Authority (1982- ) Bromley County (before 1974) Surrey County (1974-1996) Surrey County (after 1996) Not applicable Status : Status Pre 1948 Local Authority Post 1948 NHS Type : Type Pre 1948 Mental Post 1948 Mental Records can be found at: London Metropolitan Archives Record type Date range Administrative 1875 - 1948 General 1875 - 1948 Admission & Discharge 1916 - 1928 Staff 1902 - 1904 Finding aids Finding aids Catalogue Location of finding aids At Repository(AR) Details AR: CAT: AR: See also London County Council Asylums Committee 1889 - 1914, Asylums and Mental Deficiency Committee 1914 - 1922, Mental Hospitals Committee 1922 - 1948,London County Council Public Health, Mental Health Committee PH/MENT/4 and Staff Matters Committee PH/STA/5. Surrey History Centre Record type Date range Administrative 1883 - 1888 General 1883 - 1888 Finding aids Finding aids Brief Guide(BG) Location of finding aids At Repository(AR) Details SHC reference: QS/- Top of page Croydon Archives Service Record type Date range Administrative 1884 - 1988 General 1948 - 1983 Finance 1948 - 1962 Estates 1948 - 1972 Nursing 1951 - 1973 Admission & Discharge 1883 - 1988 Staff 1891 - 1971 Other 1884 - 1950 Clinical & Patients 1883 - 1992 Finding aids Finding aids Brief Guide(BG), Catalogue Location of finding aids At Repository(AR) Details Notes Burial Register 1884 - 1950" Brenda

Hi Brenda, that looks great. Thank you for the information, it's really interesting. Lucia :-)

If the grave site is on concecrated ground would'nt a preist be involved, and there for some form of church record.

Where would a patient of Cane Hill asylum who died in 1982 have been cremated. I have spoken to the two crematoriums near there but they have no record of him.

Lourdes
Are you sure that the person was definitely cremated?
Could a relative have asked for a service nearer their home, in which case perhaps you could try crematorium a bit further away. Most have records which are easy to check, but I do sympatise. I too am hunting for a record from about that time ( 1983, but not from Coulson area) and can't find a burial or cremation.

The original posting was in 2004 !!

Those two asylums ( Cane Hill and Netherne ) covered a large area-Greater London- so maybe the funeral would have been nearer their home or that of their relatives ?

Both no longer exist and the grounds built on

Hi, I have just found this web site after researching my family history. Not sure whether users know that Croydon Cemeteries and Crematorium, Mitcham Road, Croydon, have a dedicated bronze memorial plaque to those patients who were buried in the Cane Hill Grounds, between 1884 - 1950, their remains were exhumed and cremated at the crematorium and laid to rest in the Garden of Remembrance, Location No: 1000. I had the privilege of being involved in the arranging of this plaque, also of producing some of the archive material held in the cemetery office. I have now retired but I am sure the details are still available, I am aware that there are some lists of people whose cremated remains have been laid to rest beneath the memorial.
[email protected]

Stella,

You have picked up on an old thread - which does not matter as the information you give is relevant to anyone looking up records for that asylum.

However, could you please remove your personal email address, as that is against the t & c's of the site, and may result in your post being removed?

Thanks

I am also in a muddle, i wish someone could tell me how to gain access to these records in Cane Hill. My gran was held there in 1933 and died there 1939. i would love to see her records. Can anyone help me please
Kate :-(

An old thread katerina, but never-the-less

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=48

Several leads to follow up from there.

Link for Croydon Museum & Archives contact details - they could probably give free advise, but charge for a specific name search
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a?_ref=352

Quite frequently patient records have been destroyed, but there is no harm asking.

If they are there might they be held subject to the 100 year closure rule ?

True, but the lady in question did die there in 1939.