General Chat

please can someone advise me how to obtain an English birth certificate from NZ .
She was my grandmother as was known as Minnie in NZ.

Hi Patricia and welcome to the boards.

I'm not seeing her birth registration.

In case you don't have her baptism record.........

Maria Alice Egan in the Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)
Name: Maria Alice Egan
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1876
Baptism Date: 19 Mar 1876
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Thomas Egan ...Abode: Manchester....Labourer
Mother's name: Frances Egan
Archive Roll: 774

Her parents marriage..........

???

Thomas Egan in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral)
Name: Thomas Egan (Bachelor) Mason
Birth Year: abt 1839
Marriage Date: 7 Jun 1870
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: William Egan (Mason)
Spouse's Name: Frances Moore (Spinster)
Spouse's Father's Name: Samuel Moore (Smith)
Archive Roll: 737
Witnesses: Andrew Taylor and Eleanor Turner
Residence for both.....Greengate, Salford

You can order the certificate here.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

If that is Maria Alice's parents marriage, Mother Frances remarried in 1881

Frances Egan in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral)
Name: Frances Egan [Frances Moore] (Widow) Manchester
Birth Year: abt 1849
Marriage Date: 14 Sep 1881
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Samuel Moore (Smith) Deceased
Spouse's Name: Charles Herman (Soldier 43rd Foot) Oxford
Spouse's Father's Name: Edward Haman (Tailor) Deceased
Archive Roll: 744
Witnesses: Michale Burke and Elizabeth Davies

??

Frances Harman in the 1891 England Census
Name: Frances Harman
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles Harman
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Cheetham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prestwich

Household Members:

Charles Harman 50
Frances Harman 44 (Tailoress)
Maria Harman 15 <<<<<<< (Tailoress) Salford, Lancashire
Francis Harman 13 (Daughter)
Grace Coole 29

??

Alice Harman in the 1901 England Census
Name: Alice Harman
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Mother: Frances Harman
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Sacred Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Greengate

Household Members:

Frances Harman 54 Ireland (Widow) Shop Keeper
Alice Harman 24 (Florist)
Frances Smith 23 (Married Daughter) Fancy Box Maker
Minnie Smith 2 (Granddaughter)
Thomas Smith 4 (Grandson)

So did your Maria Alice take on the surname of her Stepfather?

Or perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree!

??

Frances Egan in the 1871 England Census
Name: Frances Egan
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas Egan
Gender: Female
Where born: Florwich, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Heath and Newton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Newton

Household Members:

Thomas Egan 34 (Labourer for Tailors) Ireland
Frances Egan 26 (Tailoress)
Ellen Moore 53 (Widow) Dublin, Ireland
Ellen Moore 64?? Unmarried....Daughter....Wife's Sister...Dublin, Ireland (Age 11??)
Stephen Walden?? Egan 1 Son Dublin, Ireland
(Residence...3 Crook Street)

So one might assume that Ellen Moore senior (Widow) is the mother of Frances and Ellen.


Stephen Watter Egan in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Stephen Watter Egan (Possibly Stephen "Walter" Egan on the image)
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1871
Parish: Collyhurst, Albert Memorial Church
Parish as it Appears: The Albert Memorial Church
Father's name: Thomas Egan (Pensioner) 3 Crook Street
Mother's name: Frances Egan
Reference Number: M140/1/27/2
Item Number: 12
Archive Roll: 513

Stephen Walter Egan in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Stephen Walter Egan
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Registration Year: 1873
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 3
Registration district: Manchester
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 193




Frances Harman in the 1911 England Census
Name:Frances Harman
Age in 1911:61
Estimated birth year:abt 1850
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Female
Birth Place:Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish:Salford
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Street address:28 Gravel Lane Salford
Marital Status:Widowed
Occupation:Provision Dealer
Registration district:Salford


Household Members:

Frances Harman 61
Thomas Smith 14 (Grandson)

Minnie was Frances Smith's daughters nickname.......she was actually born Maria Alice Smith.

Maria Alice Smith in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Maria Alice Smith
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 116


Frances Smith in the 1911 England Census
Name: Frances Smith
Age in 1911: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 28 Gravel Lane Greengate Salford
Marital Status: Married
Occupation:Fancy Box Maker (cardboard)
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Broughton



Household Members:

Frances Smith 33
Thomas Smith 14
Maria Alice Smith 12

Married 15 years......2 children born and living.

As you can see, son Thomas is also on the 1911 census with his Grandmother.

Who, where and when did your Grandmother Maria Alice Egan marry Patricia??

(Edit: I know the answer to that now! ;o))

As this is Patricia's first post, I will send her a PM.

??


England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915?

Name: Maria Alice Hagan
Birth: Apr 1876 - Salford, Lancashire


Births Jun 1876

Hagan Maria Alice Salford 8d 81

Regarding the birth you posted Choccy.....

How coincidental is this?

Frances Hagan in the 1881 England Census
Name: Frances Hagan
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 4 Ashton St
Marital Status: Widow <<<
Occupation: Tailoress <<<
Registration district: Salford
Sub registration district: Greengate

Household Members:

Frances Hagan 32
Ellen Airey 22 Married (Sister) Tailoress Dublin' Ireland
Maria Alice Airey 5 (Just Maria Alice on the image) Salford ********
Frances Airey 3 (Just Frances on the image) Salford

On the 1871 census I posted......Frances had a sister Ellen Moore


Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
Airey Walter Salford 8d 129
MOORE Ellen Salford 8d 129

AIREY on original


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Queen Street, Salford, Lancashire, England


Walter Aney Head Married Male 32 1859 Labourer Bolton, Lancashire, England

Ellen Aney Wife Married Female 33 1858 Tailoress Dublin, Ireland

Annie Aney Daughter - Female 12 1879 Scholar Salford, Lancashire, England

William Aney Son - Male 8 1883 Scholar Salford, Lancashire, England

Frances Aney Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Salford, Lancashire, England

Death of Thomas Egan


Deaths Sep 1875 (>99%)
EGAN Thomas 39 Salford 8d 58

Thomas Egan in the UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: Thomas Egan
Death Date: 11 Sep 1875
Cemetery: Philips Park Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Miles Platting, Metropolitan Borough of Manchester, Greater Manchester, England
Has Bio?: N

URL:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=140806843&ref=acom

??

Ancestry tree has a 'Minnie Egan' marrying Wilson Skeen in 1899 in New Zealand.

I have just checked that out Choccy and it's Patricia's tree.

:-)


New Zealand, Marriage Index, 1840-1934?
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Wilson Skeen
Spouse: Minnie Egan


She has Minnie's parents as Thomas Egan and Frances Moore...so i am on the right track!

I think she will be pleased with all this information as she doesn't have it in her tree.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19000108.2.46?query=wilson skeen

(have a look round on below, possibly more)

Chris :)

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers

(also google search, bringing up items)

I'm not seeing the Airey's after 1891

I wonder if this is Ellen's death....

Ellen Airey in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ellen Airey
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Registration Year: 1892
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 34
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 73

Alexander Thomas Airey in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Alexander Thomas Airey
Baptism Date: 27 Jun 1877
Parish: Salford, Sacred Trinity
Parish as it Appears: Sacred Trinity Salford
Father's name: Walter Airey (Labourer) 2 Taylors Ch?
Mother's name: Ellen Airey
Reference Number: L131/1/3/3
Item Number: 3
Archive Roll: 561


Annie Airey in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Annie Airey
Baptism Date: 2 Jul 1879
Parish: Salford, Sacred Trinity
Parish as it Appears: Sacred Trinity Salford
Father's name: Walter Airey (Carter) 9 Woods? Buildings
Mother's name: Eleanor Airey
Reference Number: L131/1/3/3
Item Number: 3
Archive Roll: 561

I am wondering if Alexander's birth was registered in the name of just Thomas....and he was later baptised as Alexander Thomas?

??

Births Jun 1877 (>99%)
Airey Thomas Salford 8d 85

??

Thomas Airey in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Thomas Airey
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 3
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 74



Frances Airey in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Frances Airey
Birth Date: 20 Jul 1888
Baptism Date: 31 Oct 1888
Parish: Salford, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Salford' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Walter Airey (Steeple Jack) 22 Queen Street
Mother: Ellen Airey
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drm/2/218a

Possibly another child........

??

Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
Airey Walter Salford 8d 88

Deaths Sep 1887 (>99%)
Airey Walter 2 Salford 8d 127

I'm not seeing a birth register for William

??

Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
Airey John William Salford 8d 19 >>>>>>>>No, this isn't him.

Edit: I found the marriage for Annie Airey

Annie Arrey (Airey on the image) in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: Annie Arrey (Spinster) 8 Lloyd Street
Birth Year: abt 1881
Age: 22
Marriage Date: 18 Jul 1903
Parish: Salford, St Stephen
Parish as it Appears: S Stephen
Father: Walter Arrey (Carter)
Spouse: James Lindsay (Bachelor) Carter....6 Lloyd Street
Spouse Father: Frances Lindsay (Cab Driver)
Item Number: 4
Archive Roll: 959
Witnesses: Nathaniel Brown and Jessie Lindsay


Annie Lindsay in the 1911 England Census
Name: Annie Lindsay
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 19 Ashton St Greengate Salford
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Salford
Registration District Number: 465
Sub-registration district: Broughton



Household Members:

James Lindsay 28
Annie Lindsay 30
Francess Lindsay 6
Jessie Lindsay 3
Annie Lindsay 2
Joseph Airey 19 (Brother in Law to Head)

Married 5 years....5 children born, 3 living, 2 had died.


Brother Joseph.......

Births Dec 1891 (>99%)
Airey Joseph Salford 8d 84

??

Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)

Airey Joseph Hanlon Salford 8d 241
Hanlon Emily Airey Salford 8d 241


Births Jun 1921 (>99%)
Airey William Hanlon Salford 8d 113

Births Dec 1924 (>99%)
Airey Edna Hanlon Salford 8d 148

Births Jun 1929 (>99%)
Airey Joseph Hanlon Salford 8d 574

Mothers birth.......

??

Births Sep 1895 (>99%)
Hanlon Emily Salford 8d 113

Sister Frances married in 1910........


Marriages Dec 1910 (>99%)

Airey Frances Salford 8d 18
Haydock William Salford 8d 18

In the 1911 census she is lodging with her husband brother.......

(I Checked John and William out on the 1901 census)

Frances Haydock in the 1911 England Census
Name: Frances Haydock
Age in 1911: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Birth Place:Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Broughton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 3 Voilet St L Broughton
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Spinner
Registration district: Salford
registration district: Broughton

Household Members:

John Haydock 33
Lily Haydock 30
Frances Haydock 22 (Married under one year......No children)


Births Mar 1913 (>99%)
Haydock Lily Airey Salford 8d 190

Births Mar 1915 (>99%)
Haydock William Airey Salford 8d 129

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
Haydock Eileen Airey Salford 8d 62

Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Haydock Frances Airey Salford 8d 123

Father William........

Name: William Haydock
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Salford Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Gillingham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Marital Status: Single <<<<Married on the image
Occupation: Leading Stoker
Registration district: Medway

William Haydock 28 Married


William Haydock in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: William Haydock
Death Date: 13 Dec 1955
Death Place: Salford
Probate Date: 23 Aug 1957
Registry: Manchester, Chester, England

Of 49 Meadow Road, Salford...At Ladywell Hospital, Salford

To Frances Haydock widow......Effects: £210..2s 6d

This is interesting........on the marriage record for Thomas Egan, his father was William Egan, Occupation: Mason

On the 1861 census, Walter Airey is Grandson to a William Egan born 1803 Ireland..Occupation Stone Mason.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14, Queen Street, Great Bolton, Bolton, Lancashire, England

Household Members

William Egan Head Married Male 58 1803 Stone Mason Ireland
Ann E Egan Wife Married Female 48 1813 - Ireland
Joseph Egan Son Unmarried Male 17 1844 Stone Mason Ireland
Ann Egan Daughter Unmarried Female 19 1842 Cotton Factory Worker Ireland
William Airy Son In Law Married Male 50 1811 Engine Pattern Maker Ulverston, Lancashire,
Maria Airy Daughter Married Female 23 1838 - Ireland
Walter Airy Grandson - Male 2 1859 - Bolton, Lancashire, England


Marriages Mar 1858 (>99%)
AIREY William Bolton 8c 312
EAGAN Maria Bolton 8c 312

(Walter and Ellen were living in Queens Street in 1891)

Maria claims to have been born in Bolton Lancashire on the 1871 census......

Maria Airey in the 1871 England Census
Name: Maria Airey
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation:Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Cathedral
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Market Street

Household Members:

Maria Airey 29 (Widow) Refreshment Room Keeper
Clara Marshall 22 (Lodger) Waitress
Walter Nirey 12 (Son) Airey on the image

(Res: 51 Long Millgate)


Maria Airey in the 1881 England Census
Name: Maria Airey
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 51 Long Mill Gate
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Shopkeeper Tobacconist
Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: Market Street

Household Members:

Maria Airey 38
Mary Turner 37 (General Servant/Domestic)

(Res: 51 Long Millgate)

Maria seems to have done rather well for herself considering she was a widow.

I seem to have lost her after the 1881 census.......but I will keep looking.

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Back Spring Gardens, Great Bolton, Bolton, Lancashire, England

William Egin Head Married Male 45 1806 Stone Mason Ireland
Ann Egin Wife Married Female 40 1811 Wife Of Stone Mason Mayo, Mayo, Ireland
William Egin Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Stone Mason Mayo, Mayo, Ireland
Maria Egin Daughter - Female 15 1836 Carder Ireland
Thomas Egin Son - Male 12 1839 Piecer Ireland <<<<<<<<<
Joseph Egin Son - Male 7 1844 Scholar Ireland
Mary Willigan Visitor Widow Female 60 1791 Bonnet Maker Ireland

I was just trying to get my head around that.

Soo......Walter married his Uncle Thomas's wife's sister Ellen.

Walter's father William married Thomas's sister Maria.

Phew!.....I think I have that right! :-)

To reply on here Patricia........type in the white box at the bottom, then click on "Submit"

Prickles. ;o))

Nudging up for Patricia.

:-)

this has reminded me that there was a notice in an Auckland paper in 1923.this person was a CPO Airey of HMS Philomel seeking Minnie Egan. I did make enq's into this person & origin but got no response.