Military Chat

Hello.
I have been asked by an archivist to find out what I can about this Spitfire. Apparently it was piloted by a Norwegian called Sgt Tormod Abrahamsen and crashed in Holland in Nov 3rd 1944, the pilot was killed. It is thought that the plane was recovered and sent back to Britain was repaired, and was back in service again by Jan 1945. In April that year it was again shot down and the Norwegian pilot, Sgt Jans Eilief Holwech was killed. There is some controversy as to whether this was the same plane (killing two pilots) or whether in fact records have been muddled and the crashes were two separate planes. Any information about this would be gratefully received. Thankyou

If Vickers Armstrong at Castle Bromwich was the only place where Spitfires were produced (I don't know) then would the damaged ones have been sent back there for repair, rather than sent to various maintenance units around the country.....I have no idea, just plucking ideas out of the blue....my thoughts are that if repair logs/documentation survived would it be in a Spitfire museum or, if such a thing exists at Castle Bromwich, an archives section/library? It might be worth writing to enquire. At least this may help you determine whether the plane flew again after the first crash.

I have just re-read this and I seem to have come up with more questions than you did!! :-D I certainly haven't managed to answer any of yours :-S sorry!

P.S. I don't know where you would find records of crashes, the Imperial War Museum? Or The National Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/combat-reports-ww2.htm

Thanks for your reply Karen, and I will try The National Archives. I've been onto WW2 forum and that has been quite informative, so who knows what will crop up!!

There are a couple of youtube videos about the first crash
(eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1BD-HV5SiU ). Unfortunately they are in Dutch. From what I could see the aircraft would not be repairable.

Edit:
Having said that it may well be that they had a lot of Spitfire parts, enough to rebuild a Spitfire, and that PL393 provided more components than the rest, so the rebuilt aircraft inherited its serial.

Not sure which forum you mean, Magpie, but if it wasn't 'WW2 Talk' I suggest giving it a try..
http://ww2talk.com/forums/

The Spitfire Museum is at RAF Manston, in Kent. They should be able to help,

The Airfield, Manston Road, Ramsgate, Kent CT12 5DF
01843 821940

www.spitfiremuseum.org.uk

Yes I've been on WW2 forum and it has been very helpful. I've also been onto a Spitfire forum, so that may be able to give more accurate info.
Thanks everyone for your efforts.

My father often said Castle Bromwich was the only place where, other than the engines everything for the spitfire was made, put together and it flew out completed. Other factories around the country did parts and they were sent to places to assemble them. It would not have been good practice to have all the spitfires made in 1 place.

My father started to work at Vickers Armstrong in 1938 and left in 1946/47 when production slowed from the frantic war time rate.

I enquired on Air Britain about this problem and the serial PT726 was mentioned for the first crash.

A Google brings up this report:
http://www.studiegroepluchtoorlog.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SGLO-Verlieslijst-T-1939tm1945-versie-03-19-10-2011-Sorted-by-Name.pdf

Another reference is:
"Christopher Shores and Chris Thomas, in 2nd Tactical Air Force Vol.2 (Classic/Ian Allan 2005) say that Abrahamsen was killed on 3.11.44 in PT726, which was shot down by flak N of Breda."

There are of course several references on the Internet to PL393 for both crashes.

It does seem unlikely that an aircraft that crashed badly enough to kill the pilot would have been repaired at that late stage of the war when aircraft were not in short supply.

Thanks to Ioannis Mylonas and Geoff Negus of Air Britain for information.

Thank you very much for this info. This is really interesting and well worth exploring.