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Hi Jenny,

If you don't subscribe to Ancestry you can view the war records free at the moment via a link from the BBC website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/remembrance/addmemories/howto_sophie.shtml

You will need to register first but it can be done just as a guest, no need to take out the free trial.

Good luck to your daughter, I became a grandmother again a week ago and have to wait till Dec to be able to give her a cuddle.

Christine

You are very welcome Jenny.

I became a 'Granny' for the second time a few weeks ago so I know how busy you are going to be (It is SO worth it though !!).

Give our best wishes to your daughter and let us know how you get on when you have the time.

Dea x

Thanks everyone!
I've certainly got something to go on now. I'm going over to my mother in Law's this morning and will show her these findings but unfortunately she has early dementia, her memory isn't too good; she only remembers what she wants to.
A first marriage looks curious; maybe that's why his daughters know so little about his pre-marriage life? As Divorce wasn't the 'done-thing' then, he might not have wanted to mention it.....
I'm pretty certain that the Army Record is him but not sure about the other findings yet. I need to sit down for a few hours research but unfortunately that won't be for a while as I'm rather busy at the moment and my daughter will be making me a Grandmother any day now as she's already a week overdue.
Thank you again for all the leads; I will let you know how I get on when I can.
Love to you all,
Jenny

Me neither!

By the way, that Greek Road on the army record - I think it is Creek Road. I did an address search on the 1881 but 103 didn't seem to be there.

Thank you Mavis - perhaps someone will tell us how to do that ?

In the meantime'

There were 2 possibles for his mother Julia Angliss:

Births Sep 1843
ANGLISS Julia Aston 16 169

Births Sep 1852
Angliss Julia Poplar 1c 560
.........................

Here they both are on 1861:

Julia Anglis
Thomas, Mary Ann abt 1852 Mill Wall, Middlesex, England Daughter Poplar All Saints, Middlesex
View Record

Julia Angliss
Joseph,Sarah abt 1843 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Southwark St George The Martyr, Surrey

.........................

Two marriages at the right time:

Marriages Dec 1869
Angliss Julia St George S 1d191 .................this is the one who married William! - therefore I believe
it was the one born in Birmingham ???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1871
Angliss Julia Poplar 1c 1395 - NOT the one !

Dea x

P.S. - This means we should be able to find William + Julia on 1871 + daughter Harriet !!

HHHeeelp !!!!!! - I can't find them!

Dea x

There is a divorce 1936 on The national archives
but not to be down loaded, if you know how you get it you could get some one to get it for you !!
the number is Divorce court file 9046

Mavis

Don't think divorce was that common then but I can't find a death for her. I wonder how Frederick is described on his later marriage cert?

Hi all - just taken 'little grand-daughter' home so I can spend a quick half an hour on here 'unwinding' before I cook Dinner !

Thanks for taking a look Mavis + Potty - I wonder when Jenny will be back to take a look (perhaps she is on a different time zone?)

Aren't the Army records wonderful - did you see he was about 14 - only (I think) 4ft 7" and weighed about four and a half stone !!! - I bet his drum was bigger and heavier than him !!

I wonder why his first wife was 'struck off the roll' in 1914 - does anyone know about finding a divorce record at that time? - I shouldn't think that she died as I think the noted comment would have been a little 'kinder'.

Back to the search !

Dea x

Possible marriage for Julia:

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)

*****Angliss Julia St George S 1d 191
*****BYFORD William Thomas St. George S. 1d 191
Clarke Charlotte St. George S. 1d 191
COX Arthur William St. George S. 1d 191
Curtis Clara Mercy St George S 1d 191
Moore Mary St George South'k 1d 191
WARR George Henry St George S 1d 191

His marriage to Bertha:

Marriages Mar 1905 (>99%)

BYFORD Frederick James Islington 1b 461
Skinner Bertha Louisa Islington 1b 461

The service records look good for your man

I cant find a Sophia with a family

Mavis

Just had another look at Service Records - they really DO seem to fit - He would not be on 1891 + 1901 census as he was abroad at the times.

However - it is difficult to read but he has his mother JULIA mentioned as next of kin with 2 addresses given 1 looks like 103 Greek Rd, Deptford ??? and the other 22 Bridge Street, Greenwich.

Something strange about his wife also - when she is mentioned as next of kin she is Bertha Louisa but surname looks like HAWKINS ??
(Not Skinner, or Byford?)

I have to go off-line but perhaps someone could hava a look as I can't seem to match up his mother Julia with anyone?

Dea x

Looks like Harriet could have been Louisa ??

Births Dec 1870
Byford Harriett Louisa St. Olave 1d 228

Dea x

If that is the correct birthplace on the army records, maybe this is him in 1881.


1881 England Census
about Fredk. Byford
Name: Fredk. Byford
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Scholar
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: "Forest Gate District School Forest Gate"
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: Forest Galeistrict Schools
Neighbors: View others on page

These are other Byfords in same school

Emily Byford 3
Harriet Byford 10
William Byford 8

No Louise though.

Christine

Have a look at this army record on Ancestry - I believe it is him!

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
about Frederick Byford
Name: Frederick Byford
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Age at enlistment: 14
Birth Parish: Poplar
Birth County: London
Document Year: 1889
Regimental number: 3019
Number of Images: 15


It shows him doing 30 yeras service with an exemplary record in the Lancashire Fusiliers.

It also shows a marriage which was 'struck off roll' in 1914?? - don't know what that means but I looked up the marriage and it shows his middle name as James and it was in Islington.

Marriages Mar 1905

BYFORD Frederick James Islington 1b 461
Skinner Bertha Louisa Islington 1b 461

There is an awful lot of info in the records - enjoy !!!!!!!!

Dea x

P.S. - Let me know if they are the right ones - I am sure they will be!

Dea x

There is a Louise daughter of Frederick and Priscilla born Battersea c.1880 on 1881 census

His marriage cert should give his father's name - if he remembered it/knew it. Do you have that?

I suppose you've trawled through FreeBMD?

Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
BYFORD Frederick W. Ham 4a 16 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1878 (>99%)
Byford Fred Braintree 4a 434 Scan available - click to view

There are a whole bunch of Byfords in Essex as my OH has one of them in his tree.

You might be able to get hold of his army records at Kew. Have you looked on Ancestry for them? They're free to search at the moment - the WW1 records anyway.

Jill

We know very little about my Mother in Law's father before he married as he never spoke about his background to his family. All we know is ......
He was called Frederick James Byford; born c1877 in London - possibly the Lewisham area. He had a Sister called Louise and at least 2 other siblings whom we know nothing about. They all became orphans at a young age; Fred ran away to join the Army around the age of 13yrs by lying about his age and began as a Drummer Boy. He rose through the ranks to RSM when discharged in 1920 after 30yrs service in the Lancashire Fusileers; he then became a Civil Servant working for the Ministry of Health.
He married Nora Hackett from Co Durham; they lived and raised 4 daughters(Sylvia, Nora(Betty), Freda and Jean.) in and around London, finally settling in Ruislip.
My husband's Aunt thinks she may have his Birth Certificate somewhere but has not yet found it. I have had no luck in finding a record of his birth or his name on various Census forms as we are not certain of his year of birth or who his parents were. There appear to be very many Byfords in London so the search is difficult;
Can anyone help please?
Jenny Nice.