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Thomas John Capel 1838-1911

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Tobias

Tobias Report 10 Nov 2008 00:14

Can anyone help me find information about Thomas John Capel who was a Roman Catholic priest based in Kensington?

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 10 Nov 2008 00:29

1881 census
Scarsdale Lodge, Kensington
Thomas J Capel, head, 43, prelate of the pope, born Kent Ramsgate
Annie Collins, servant, 45, housekeeper, born Ireland
Margaret Collins, servant, 20, domestic servant, born London

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 10 Nov 2008 00:36

1871 census (Says born Ireland here)
2 Scarsdale Villas, Kensington
Thomas J. Capel, head, 35, Roman catholic priest, born Ireland, Ardmore
Elizabeth, sister, 25, born Suffolk, NK
Anne Collins, servant, 32, housekeeper, born Ireland, Cork
Kate Flannagan, servant, 27, general servant, born Ireland, Limerick

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 10 Nov 2008 00:49

Could this be the family in 1851? Sister Elizabeth matches.
1851 census
Station Cottage, Hastings St. Leonard, Sussex
John Capel, head, 41, coast guard chief boatman, born Kent, Brompton
Mary, wife, 42, born Ireland, Waterford
Thomas John, son, 15, pupil teacher, born Ireland, Waterford
Mary Bridget, dau, 11, born Kent, Ramsgate
Sarah Ann, dau, 8, born Kent, Deal
Elizabeth, dau, 6, born Sussex, Sizewell Gap
Arthur Joseph, son, 3,born Sussex, Sizewell Gap

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 10 Nov 2008 01:08

Have you googled his name, Tobias? There are many books written by him, portraits of him in the National Portrait gallery

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 10 Nov 2008 04:25

and this might the reason for his confusion about his birthplace!!

1841 Census

Name: Thomas Capel
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Deal
Hundred: Bewsborough
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Eastry
Sub registration district: Deal
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Capel 30 b. ca 1811, Kent, Coastguard
Mary Capel 30 b.ca 1811, Ireland
Maria Capel 6 b.ca 1835, Ireland
Thomas Capel 5
Mary Capel 1 b.ca 1840, Kent


It was quite common for someone to think they were born in the place where they spent most of their early life!



sylvia

Researching:
My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.

Tobias

Tobias Report 10 Nov 2008 14:33

Many thanks everyone for your help.

I'm in the process of writing an article on Mgr Capel and I rather lose track of him in the US in 1885.

Can't even find notice of his death although it is usually said to be 1911.

Was hoping to find some decendants.

Tobias

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 10 Nov 2008 15:46

A descendant of a Roman Catholic priest? I think not!!!

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 10 Nov 2008 16:05

From the Utica, New York Herald Dispatch, Tuesday, Oct. 24, 1911:

Monsignor Thomas John Capel, who died in Sacramento, California yesterday at the age of 75, was at the height of his career, widely noted for his eloquence and for his success in making converts to the Roman Catholic Church from among the gentry of the Church of England. Disraeli did much to spread his fame by making him Catesby, a leading character in his novel "Lohair". He had resided in America since 1882.

Someone with access to Ancestry.com should be able to find him on the US censuses.

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

Tobias

Tobias Report 12 Nov 2008 15:33

He did have a sister!!!

Tobias

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 12 Nov 2008 17:52

According to the censuses he had 4 sisters and a brother but their descendants are not his descendants and Roman Catholc priests do take a vow of chastity.

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

Tobias

Tobias Report 14 Nov 2008 14:15

You are correct the vow of celibacy does mean he would have no legitimate direct heirs.

Decendants of his sisters would be fine.

T

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 14 Nov 2008 14:34

Actually, Tobias, there was a death in California of a Thomas J. Capel that intrigued me. He was born 1906 with mother's maiden name Vassar.. I suppose it's possible that he was a son of your Thomas J. but your TJ would have been abt. 70 and not very celibate!

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 14 Nov 2008 21:56

he could have left the church, and married




might be interesting to try to find that Capel/Vassar marriage



sylvia

Researching:
My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 14 Nov 2008 22:47

No, no, no, he died as a Roman Catholic priest, didn't he? He was a monsignor when he died.

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 14 Nov 2008 22:53

Have a look at this:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=990CEFD61131E233A25757C2A9669D946096D6CF&oref=slogin

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

Tobias

Tobias Report 14 Nov 2008 23:58

He did indeed die a RC Priest but celebacy was something that he wasn't very good at!

That is part of the article I'm writing on him.

Tobias

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 15 Nov 2008 00:04

Oh? There's something you're not telling us?

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)

Tobias

Tobias Report 16 Nov 2008 15:10

There's a whole article's worth!!

He was involved in a series of scandals in the 1870-80s which I have found in cataloguing an archive of the time.

Basicly when Mgr Capel came round you locked up your money, wives and drink not necessarily in that order!!

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 16 Nov 2008 18:01

Sound like quite the rascal! Hard to believe he was the private chaplain of Pope Pius IX, rector of the Roman Catholic University, Kensington etc.

Researching:
Great grandmother Dorothy Bean nee Abbott (1858-1908)