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I am at a brick wall with my great-grandmother Elizabeth Caroline Dallen, born around 1864, apparently in Kensal Green/Kilburn. Unable to find her before the 1881 census (either birth record or 1871 census). Father's name William Dallen (painter according to her marriage certificate). Have tried every possible mis-spelling I can think of! I have found a Dallen family in Chelsea who I think may be the right one, but so far I cannot link her to this family (or to any other Dallens!).

A brick wall indeed! Could you put the details you have from later censuses please? Or was she married by then, hence the problem? Also, do you know what district Kilburn would come under - was it Middlesex?

Jan

Are you sure the second name is caroline?

Births Dec 1863 (>99%)
DALLEN Elizabeth Catherine Poplar 1c 673

Marriages Mar 1885 (>99%)

Dallen Elizabeth Caroline Pancras 1b 42
Mason William Frederick C Pancras 1b 42
Willis Henry John Pancras 1b 42

Maybe one of the registrars misheard or mis wrote?

But I would have thought they were one and the same people.

True Kilburn is not poplar ,but she may have "thought "she was born there.

Was this her in 1881?

Name: Elizabeth Dallen
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Hendon
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Thanks for your replies! Much appreciated.

She married Henry John Willis in 1885. She sometimes gives her place of birth as Kensal Green and sometimes Kilburn. As far as I can make out, it's Middlesex, and could have come under Chelsea at the time. The family I have found in Chelsea have an Elizabeth Caroline in an earlier generation, so I hope there may turn out to be a link!

It's definitely Elizabeth Caroline on her marriage certificate. I've already sort of ruled out the Elizabeth Dallen in Poplar, but I will look again, just in case there's something I've missed - pretty sure it's not her, though.

1881 there's an Elizabeth Caroline Dallen of approximately the right age and birthplace working as a servant in Hendon. So far, I've assumed it's probably her. By 1891 she was married, and living in St Pancras.

Thanks, K, your reply crossed with mine. It is before 1881 that I can't find her... I have tracked down her movements from then onwards.

Thanks Vivienne

Yes, that is the marriage (to Henry John Willis) that I have the certificate for. Pretty sure the Caroline is correct, as she used that name elsewhere, too.

I tried to type more detail into my original posting, but I couldn't, even though I apparently had lots of characters remaining!!

There is the rather strange surname birth on FreeBMD which could be worth checking but I can't see the original

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1862 (>99%)
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TO_LIN Elizabeth Caroline Chelsea 1a 162


Sadly the name is Tomlin

If you have not sent for the birth in poplar I think I would, using father william as a checking ref,just to rule it out properly.

There is a birth in 1868 in chelsea of plain elizabeth dallen,but that would seem a little late for her.

Siobhan, grasping at straws a bit here, but who are the witnesses on the marriage cert? Most of ours are relatives, so may offer a clue.
Jan

Yes, I was hopeful about the 1868 Chelsea one but, unfortunately it's not her.... (I've seen the certificate)...

I will double-check the Elizabeth Catherine one, just in case... but I don't have high hopes...

I've been searching via various sources for the last year or so. It is, of course, possible that she wasn't listed on the 1871 census, or was staying elsewhere and was listed with an incorrect surname that I haven't yet uncovered - or was in a workhouse (though I've even searched with just the initials E C!). I think I'll just have to concentrate on tracking down her birth. Perhaps her birth wasn't registered - maybe she was illegitimate, and was brough up by her grandparents.... I'm exploring all sorts of possibilities!

Thanks, everyone!

Thanks, Janet.

One witness was her husband's brother. The other I have not yet managed to identify - Ellen Alice Coleman. I was hoping this would turn out to be a married sister (perhaps, even, the Alice in the Chelsea family I've been looking at - whose sister was known by her middle name, so I thought she may be, too)... but no luck finding out who she was, so far.......

Still working on that one! Aargh!!!

One thought re her middle name. I was researching a relation who middle name on her marriage cert was Lilian. On the correct birth cert her middle name was Mary!

Good Luck Kay

It may be Ellen Alice was just a friend - this may be her marriage:

Marriages Jun 1875
Claridge Ellen Alice Islington 1b 392
Coleman John Charles Islington 1b 392
Palmer Emmeline Louisa Islington 1b 392
PALMER Emmelite Louisa Islington 1b 392
Salt Thomas Philip Islington 1b 392

Oh well!

Jan

Ooh, yes, Kay - good advice. I've got quite a few like that in another branch of my tree. Does make things difficult, doesn't it.

I've tried not to get too hung up on the Caroline bit, and I have been ignoring it in my searches for her birth. On the other hand, I've also been looking at the idea of Caroline being the name that was registered.

Yes, Jan, I wonder if that could be Ellen Alice. I hope not, as that would mean she's probably a red herring in my search!

Very annoying lady, this great-gran, as I've got her located right from 1881 (well, 99 percent certain that's her in Hendon) through to the death of her 2nd husband in 1916.

Many thanks, everyone, for your suggestions.

I have now seen the Poplar birth certificate, and ruled that person out.

I have been trawling through the original records of the 1861 and 1871 censuses for Kilburn, Kensal Green and Hendon, looking for anyone who could be the Dallens. I've also been looking at the 1881 census again, to try and find the rest of Elizabeth's family (I know where she was). No luck yet, but still plodding on, in case they're lurking there somewhere, under a mis-spelt name!

Onward..........

Thanks, everyone, for your help. I have now found her in Kilburn in 1871 - under a mistranscribed name - and have been able to trace both parents. I have also now found the 2nd marriage of her mother (to a man whose name I had on a certificate relating to Elizabeth, and who had up until now been a mystery!). It has now all fallen into place.