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Mrs Charles Hart Was My gr gr grand mother. AllI know about her is that She was the Eldest daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas Martin1842 and the mother of Francis Stockdale nee Martin. I have seen a newspaper cutting dated around 1919-1920 Regarding a 5 generation Photo. The baby Mary Wall(my mum) Her mother Naomi Wall nee Martin, her mother Francis Stockdale nee Martin, her mother Mrs Charles Hart residing in Oldham, eldest daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas Martin. All this was from the Ilkley Gazette. Can any of you Marvellous People help me find Info on the Hart family and any of her siblings. I know Ive asked about Elizabeth before, but I hadn't this info' before. Please I hope you can help.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
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Martin Frances Ann Wharfedale 9a 215
Noble Elizabeth Wharfedale 9a 215
Skelton Isiah Scoresby Wharfedale 9a 215
Stockdale Charles Wharfedale 9a 215


1901??

Name: Frances Stockdale
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Ilkley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Brierfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Brierfield St Luke
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Nelson
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 114
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Stockdale 29
Frances Stockdale 23


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3884; Folio: 56; Page: 20.

I wonder if Frances is on the 1901 twice as this one seems to be the same person visiting her mother??

Name: Frances Ann Stockdale
[Frances Ann Martin]
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Claton, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Ilkley
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints and St Margaret
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wharfedale
Sub-registration district: Ilkley
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 85
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Martin 59
Frances Ann Stockdale 23 Daughter
Naomi Martin 6 G G daughter???
Joseph Wookey 58
John Branon 31
Mack Manch 44
Eliza Bell 65
Thomas Hampson 33

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4066; Folio: 34; Page: 15

In 1911 Naomi has the name Stockdale

HOUSEHOLD STOCKDALE FRANCES F 1878 33 Skipton Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD STOCKDALE CHARLES M 1872 39 Skipton Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD STOCKDALE NAOMI F 1895 16 Skipton Yorkshire West Riding

Births Dec 1894 (>99%)
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Martin Naomi Wharfedale 9a 154

There are only 2 Charles Harts in Oldham in 1911, have you looked at them on the census?

In the 1901 census posted above where Frances is visiting Elizabeth Martin , her mother (who is widowed) the actual image shows a family called Hart living next door. The head is William J (not F) Hart b 1871 Sherbourne Gloucester according to the 1891 census when he is apprentice to a tailor in Ilkley called Welden.
WJH is obviously too young to have married Elizabeth but I wondered if a relative might be a candidate
However, WJH was the son of John (1842 Sherborne) and Elizabeth but he did have a brother Charles Edward Hart b1850 Sherborne
Unfortunately Charles Edward is married to Martha and living in Lambeth in 1901 and I havent been able to find a marriage for him later but someone else may be cleverer

Gillian, I wondered if Frances Ann was actually Elizabeth's granddaughter on that census, if she is the mother of Naomi.

I can't see Frances on an earlier census or Elizabeth either for that matter!

My reading of it was that Frances Ann was daughter to Elizabeth and Naomi was her (Frances) daughter and thus grandaughter to Elizabeth

I found one Charles Hart in Oldham in 1911 but he is married to Annie Lydia as folls
Charles Hart 62 Excavator b Standon herts
Annie Lydia 49 (think it should be 59 if 1901 is right) b Glamorgan
Joseph 24 b Swinton Lancs
Thomas 19 b Lancs (place illegible)
James 17 b Oldham
Albert 15 b Oldham
William b Oldham
Maria Rebecca Dellow 30 married daur b Cheltenham
Norman Dellow 3 grandson b Oldham

There is an Annie Hart died Salford 1919 aged 67

Possible births for Frances??

Births Dec 1877 (>99%)
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MARTIN Frances Ann Gateshead 10a 800

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Births Mar 1878 (>99%)
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MARTIN Frances Ann Doncaster 9c 701

I read it as Mrs. Hart was the daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas and mother of Frances - so making Frances, Elizabeth's granddaughter and Naomi Elizabeth's Great Granddaughter

So the 5 generations, starting with the most recent were
Mary Wall
Naomi Martin
Frances Martin
Mrs Charles Hart
Elizabeth Martin (mnn Unknown)

Yes, RG -having looked closely at the image , Frances Ann Stockdale is grandaughter -the "g" is sqeezed in above "daur" so you are right and therefore since Frances Ann is married, she wont be found under Stockdale and not necessarily under Martin
However I have found a Frances A Brown b 1878 Clayton Yorks in 1891 in Ilkley daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Brown and that Elizabeth Brown was born 1843 Walsall Staffs as was Elizabeth Martin on the 1901 census
So I wonder if after all Frances was the daughter of Elizabeth Brown and Elizabeth remarried to Martin before 1901
No time now to pursue (son to be delivered to airport) but will return to this tomorrow

Just a quick addition -on the 1901 census where Frances Ann is visiting her mother/grandmother Elizabeth there is listed a Joseph Wookey 58 brother b Yatton Somerset

And in the 1891 census for Frances A Brown I mentioned above her father is Joseph Brown b 1843 Yatton Somerset
It does seem to me there are too many coincidences here and maybe there was a change of name?
But frustratingly I cant seem to find any of the Browns earlier or later either!

my what a pickle this lot is

1901 the Joseph Wookey 58y born Yatton Som. is in fact Elizabeth Martin's husband not her brother.

some of the facts from the news paper have the family surnames mixed up

The 1891 Brown family is them in Ilkley yorks
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1881 sevenhampton Glou.
Joseph Woolsey [its Wookey] 40y Navvy Yatton som.
Elizabeth ------"------ 39y Staff Walsall
Annie L Hart dau 20y Wilts Lanpurnset [welsh vill. not wilts]
Frances A Hart 3y Yorks Clayton in the clay
Maria Hart 3 mth Glouc. Cheltenham

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1891 Over Hulton Lancs
Charles Hart 35y Railway Lab. Hants Heartford ?
Ann Hart 34y Glamorgan
Maria Hart 10y Cheltenham
Charles H Hart 8?y yorks Hemsworth
Joeseph Hart 4y lancs Swinton
Ann Eliza Hart 1y lancs west Houghton

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1851
Joseph Wookey is the son of
James Wookey born 1796 Som Rowbottom
Harriett ---"----- born 1805
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Not sure what Elizabeth 1842 maiden name is--
have not been able to find the family 1861 England or Wales. not sure if Joseph and Elizabeth married -- if they did-- where-- they moved about quite a lot.

could some one else see if they can find any thing more
perhaps find Elizabeth Wookey / Martin 1911 ?????
when did Joseph die amd where.

Mavis

nudge

Well done Gillian for the information you managed to dig out considering the inaccuracy of the newspaper report.

From the further information that Mavis has provided that Annie Lydia on the 1911 census looks to be the correct Mrs Charles Hart.

Deaths Sep 1909 (>99%)
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WOOKEY Joseph 65 Wharfedale 9a 96


This is the only Elizabeth b. 1841 +/- 1 year in Walsall, Staffordshire and living in the West Riding of Yorkshire that I can see in 1911.

HOUSEHOLD WOODCOCK ELIZABETH F 1841 70 Sheffield Yorkshire West Riding

Living at same address in 1911 -


88 MARTIN Head Widow F 70 1841 Boarding House Keeper Walsall Staffordshire VIEW
88 HILDRED, Tom Boarder Single M 38 1873 Gardener Jobbing South Lincolnshire VIEW
88 FITHMARSH, Fred Boarder Widower M 47 1864 Gardener Jobbing Hemmingford Gray Huntshire VIEW
88 NICHOLS, Clement Boarder Single M 22 1889 Golf Club Maker Wimbledon London VIEW
88 SANDY, Albert Boarder Married M 45 1866 Cheff Not Known VIEW
88 LEWIS, Jack Boarder Single M 35 1876 Carter Berley in Wharfe Dale Yorks VIEW
88 WILSON, Ben Boarder Married M 50 1861 Draper Journeyman Bradford Yorks VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26019 Reference:
RG14PN26019 RG78PN1505 RD491 SD4 ED3 SN88

Registration District:
Wharfedale Sub District:
Ilkley Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Ilkley

Address:
5 Castle Yard Ilkley County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

possible deaths -


Deaths Jun 1915 (>99%)
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Martin Elizabeth 70 Wharfedale 9a 196


Deaths Sep 1924 (>99%)
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Martin Elizabeth 86 Wharfedale 9a 161

According toMary Wall now Holden The newspaper cutting was correct. Elizabeth died when Mary was about 6 years she was born 1918. So the death Sept 1924 is probably correct.

Castle Yard Ilkley is correct Both Mary and her sister were born there.

Brenda
Are we any closer to finding out who Elizabeth Wookey / Martin is or was ???

Mavis

Wow -well done to Mavis and the rest of you -I felt in my bones I was on the right lines but didnt venture into Wales
Now to find Elizabeth Wookey/ Martin -most likely Martin as it seems she didnt marry Wookey 0r Brown