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My great grandfather was Mark Frampton born1847 Cattistock Dorset died1905 Paddington London.He married either Rose Ingram or Rose Wilder born1844 Oxford. in 1873 in the district of Marylebone London.My problem is i am unable to find which of these women is my Great grandmother. Any help would be greatly appreciated. John.

Do you have birth certificates for any of Mark's children? That should give you the mother's maiden name.

When did he marry this 'Rose'?

Have you checked out names + dates of birth on the next census for a match?

Dea x

You really do need copy of a birth certificate of any of their children which will give her maiden name.

It is probably Rose Wilder but as already said buy the marriage cert or a birth cert to confirm

Thankyou for your suggestions,I don't have a birth certificate for any of the children and it seem's both Rose's have the same date of birth.they married in1873. Regards John.

I assume this is them on the 1881 census

Mark FRAMPTON Head M Male 34 Cattistock, Dorset, England Ostler
Rose FRAMPTON Wife M Female 37 Gras ?, Oxford, England
George A. FRAMPTON Son Male 5 Paddn, Middlesex, England Scholar
Walter C. FRAMPTON Son Male 1 Marlebone, Middlesex, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 98 North Street
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341035
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0160 / 38
Page Number 8

Selena, Yes this is the family,but i am afraid it has'nt any info on rose's maiden name,and i have no idea what Gras? means. Regards John

Could it be they are one in the same, if Rose had been married previously could the marriage be entered under both surnames as it would be today?


Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
Allsop George Marylebone 1a 857
DAY Kate Marylebone 1a 857
Frampton Mark Marylebone 1a 857
Ingram Rose Marylebone 1a 857
Wilder Rose Marylebone 1a 857

I can only suggest you get a birth certificate of one of the children.

Births Jun 1880
FRAMPTON Walter Charles Marylebone 1a 633

Even better would be to get their marriage certificate which will give their fathers' names.

Yes i think a birth certificate is the only way i will solve this .thanks to you all,.

Did Rose die and Mark remarry?

Deaths Dec 1882 (>99%)
Frampton Rose 39 Kensington 1a 22

1891 census transcription details for: 53, Bowman Buildings, Linton Street, St Marylebone, London, Marylebone
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 98 Folio: 69 Page: 50

Reg. District: Marylebone Sub District: Christchurch
Enum. District: 2 Ecclesiastical District: St Barnabas
Parish: St Marylebone City/Municipal Borough: Marylebone
Address: 53, Bowman Buildings, Linton Street, St Marylebone, London, Marylebone
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born
FRAMPTON, Mark Head Married M 44 1847 Astler
Dorchester, Dorsetshire
FRAMPTON, Mary Wife Married F 31 1860
Chippenham, Wiltshire
FRAMPTON, George Son M 15 1876 Errand Boy
Marylebone, London
FRAMPTON, Arthur Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Chippenham, Wiltshire
FRAMPTON, Walter Son M 11 1880 Scholar
Marylebone, London
FRAMPTON, Mark Son M 6 1885 Scholar
Marylebone, London
FRAMPTON, Daisy Daughter F 15 1876 Scholar
Marylebone, London
FRAMPTON, Emma Daughter F 3 1888
Marylebone, London
FRAMPTON, Percy Son M 1 1890
Marylebone, London

Yes Mark remarried in1883 to Mary Moggeridge

1871 census.
Rose Wilder unmarried lodger 1845 Greys Oxfordshire occ dress maker
George Wilder 1859 Reading Berkshire

I've just had a look at the image for Rose Ingram and I think it looks like 1a 867. I checked freebmd and she is also under that entry. I still think it's a good idea to get the cert as it's best to be sure but it does look like he married Rose Wilder.

Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
Hayter Mary Marylebone 1a 867
INGRAM Rose Marylebone 1a 867
Tomlinson Elias Marylebone 1a 867
Tomlinson Eliza Marylebone 1a 867
WING Septimus Marylebone 1a 867

Regards
LfW

Margaret, This looks promissing thank you very much, BestWishes John

1861.census
Fanny Wilder head mar.1838 Reading Oxfordshire
Geo Alfred son 1859 Reading Berkshire
Rose Wilder sister 1841 Grays Oxfordshire

living ( address hard to read) St Mary Newington Walworth

1851.
Fanny Wilder servant 1837 Grays oxfordshire


1841census.
Wm Wilder 1806 Oxfordshire occ sawyer
Emma 1806 Oxfordshire
Fanny 1837
Emily 1839.
ROSA WILDER 6 months Oxfordshire.
Address Grays Rotherfield Oxfordshire

living next door.
Thos( Thomas) Wilder 1771 Oxfordshire.occ sawyer.
Thos 1811 Oxfordshire

Thankyou all once again for your help,Regards John

researching my frampton tree came across your mark , rose ingram married septimus wing 1873, she came from wales poss,if you go to ancestry if you have access look up rose ingram in marriages for1873 and comes up with 2 names elias tomlinson and septimus wing, by cross reference to 1881 census was able to find rose wing.hope this helps , unfortunately your framptons are not connected to my although they come from same area in dorset.i take it like me you could not find an entry for mark in 1871 census, strangely enough a lot of my family seem to disapear in 1871, perhaps some one out there knows the answer