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I have a birth certificate for my grandmother Lizzie Jennings 7.7.1898 + her marriage certificate to James Davis 5.4.1919. On birth certificate her parents are Alice Jennings formerly Budd and father John Jennings living at 9 house back of 14 Milton Street, Birmingham, marriage certificate shows Lizzie's address as 37 Court 13 House, Great Russell Street, Birmingham, James' address is 1 back 83 Frankfort Street, Birmingham, his father is named as James Davis. Ithink Lizzie had a sister called Alice and a brother called Jospeh Arthur. James had brothers called Alfred, Arthur and John. I am having difficulty finding any further info can anyone help.

1901 census for reference


Name: Lizzie Jennens
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmn, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 123
Household Members: Name Age
Willie Hipkiss 19 son
Alice Jennens 40 Head
Arthur Jennens 9
Lizzie Jennens 2
James Slayford 17 Boarder
John Slayford 19 Boarder

Address Court 6 House 6 Milton st.

Andy

First Marriage for Alice

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
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BUDD Alice Birmingham 6d 177
Hipkiss William Birmingham 6d 177


Marriage John and Alice



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%)
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Hipkiss Alice Aston 6d 472
Jennens John Creed Aston 6d 472



Andy

1891 for John and Alice


1891 England Census
about Alice Jennens
Name: Alice Jennens
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chrysostom
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Jennens 31
Alice Jennens 4
John Jennens 41
William Jennens 9


Andy

Andy

Thank you very much I can'tbelieve how quickly you were able to come back to me with this info - are you involved in the Jennens family?

Regards
Elaine

Hi Elaine

No, I'm not part of the family. I just try to help out with lookups.

Andy

Andy

Thanks you your help, I went to the LDS website and researched John Creed Jennens and Alice Hipkiss - I don't believe they have a line going back to 1500!!!

In your experience how reliable are these records?

Thanks once agains.

Regards
Elaine

As long as the record says ' extracted' the LDS records are generally reliable. If it says 'submitted' then it needs to be checked at source. It has happened that if someone can't find a record they are looking for, they just make it up to plug a hole in the family tree.

Andy

Hi Andy

On another branch of my tree I wondered whether you could help?Eliza Phillips born 4.4.1860, my Gt Grandmother on my mother's side. I have her birth certificate which states born Hill End Cottage, Much Cowarne, Bishops Frome, Counties of Hereford & Worcester. Mother is Ann Phillips (formerly Evans) father is John, Farm Labourer. I have sent for 2 marriage certificates for an Ann Phillips and John Phillips but I'm not sure they're right - can you help?

Kind regards
Elaine

Here is the census record for the family

1861 England Census
about Eliza Phillips
Name: Eliza Phillips
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Much Cowarne, Herefordshire, England

Civil Parish: Much Cowarne
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Bromyard
Sub-registration district: Bishops Frome
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Phillips 36
Eliza Phillips 1
James Phillips 5
John Phillips 32
Mary Ann Phillips 8
Samuel Phillips 3
Thomas Phillips 10

I can't find a marriage for John Phillips and Ann Evans that fits place and time. It could be that this is a second marriage for one of them, but the names are common and that makes research more difficult.
Sorry

Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks once again I really appreciate your help.

Regards
Elaine

Hi Andy

As a result of your help with the Jennens line I have had contact with a Doug Hawkes who has a large amount of info on this line. I need some help finding Alice Budd's birth - as you will remember she married to William Hipkiss before John Creed Jennens and Doug is querying the Budd connection. Since I was last in touch I have obtained the marriage certificate for Alice and John Creed Jennens, it is interesting as she puts a Robert Hipkiss as her father - do you think this could be her father-in-law from previous marriage? Can you help me please?

Hi Elaine.

I had a look and found Alice in the 1871 census.

1871 England Census
about Alice Budd
Name: Alice Budd
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Household schedule number: 184
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Budd 13 Blacking
Annie Budd 15
Elizabeth Budd 36 Domestic Duties born Oxfordshire
Elizabeth Budd 11
Robert Budd 38 Wood Turner born Southampton
Rosey Budd 6

All chidren born Birmingham. As you can she her father is Robert. All that I can think is the the person completing the marriage entry didn't know she was married before and assumed her fathers surname was also Hipkiss!

The 'blacking' for her occuaption I think refers to blacking of grates and ranges.

Her age has also changed slightly here so her year of birth is


Births Jun 1858 (>99%)
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Budd Alice Charlotte Birmingham 6d 67


Andy

This looks like the marriage for Robert and Elizabeth

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Dec 1855 (>99%)
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BUDD Robert Birmingham 6d 133
CROSS Elizabeth Birmingham 6d 133


Andy

Andy

You are amazing - I don't know how to thank you!!

Kind regards
Elaine

Hello Andy

It seems the Jennens line in my tree has raised a lot of interest I have had contact with a Doug Hawke in Canada and he is asking me some questions that I wonder if you can help with. You will remember that Alice Budd had a first marriage to a William Hipkiss and there was a son Willie Hipkiss living with Alice Jennens (2nd marriage - to John Creed Jenens), well I found a Robert & Alice Budd in the 1901 census who had an Alice, granddaughter aged 14 living with them, which I presume is Alice Hipkiss & William Hipkiss's daughter. Doug in Canada has asked for copies of the 2 1901 census that show Willie Hipkiss with Alice and Alice, granddaughter with Robert & Alice Budd I have these to send. He also can't find a death for William Hipkiss and I also can't find this - do you think you might be more successful?

Regards
Elaine

Hi Elaine

I've had a look in 1881 census to find Wiiliam and Alice to find his date of birth and found this:

1881 England Census
about Alice Hipkiss
Name: Alice Hipkiss
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Birm, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address: 5 Ventnor Ter Guildford St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Button Maker

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Aston Manor
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Hipkiss 24
William Hipkiss 21


So it would seem he was born c1860

He should be one of these (Hipkiss appears to be a common name in Birmingham)

Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
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HIPKISS William Birmingham 6d 170
HIPKISS William Birmingham 6d 167


Having searched for a death, I can't find one.
I've checked the 1891 and 1901 census and can't see him there. The only death for a William Hipkiss that fits his date of birth is a record in Stourbridge in 1919.

The only thing I can think is, going back to Alic's second marriage, her father is recorded as Hipkiss. If the person writing the cert up didn't know she had been married before, it could be he hadn't been told and that the family had something to hide! Does the cert show her as a spinster or widow? She may have been divorced or deserted or maybe she and William were still legally married.


Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks for that - Alice recorded herself as a spinster on marriage cert. so possibly your idea is right, divorced, deserted or hiding something - I guess I'll never know. I didn't ask you before about the fact that John Creed Jennens is not registered on the 1901 census with the rest of the family I don't know where he was - any ideas.

Regards
Elaine

Hi Elaine

In 1901 census Alice is shown as head of house, married not widowed.

This could be John Jennens death

Deaths Mar 1901 (>99%)
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Jennens John 61 Birmingham 6d 123


except the age is out according to the 1891 census!
The census gives his age as 41 born c1851

Another mystery

Perhaps Alice , having already 'lost' one husband, managed the same trick for a second time!

Andy