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Hi

Could someone help me with the mystery of my great grandfather John Howell born in 1876 Bath.

I can find him on the 1891 census Penbryn Cardiganshire, working on a farm. He married Margaret Evans in CapelTygwydd Llandygwydd Cardiganshire 1895 , but he put his fathers name as "Uarofa" on marriage certificate, no such name can be found.

In 1881 census Bath I have found a John Howell in Walcot mothers maiden name Emma Hemblen widowed ,and father James Howell, also a brother James born 1872 Bath, I can find no trace of James the brother after 1881, my problem is how can I positively match the two Johns as the same person, have spoken to member of Hemblen tree, and I have solved a mystery for them about Emma Hemlen, but can't be positive I have the right John.

Kind Regards Teresa

just for the record

EMMA HEMBLEN Pedigree
Female
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Event(s):
Birth: 1834 Bath, Somerset, England
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Parents:
Father: ISAAC HEMBLEN Family
Mother: ELIZABETH ROSE

for ref the John in Bath

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1881 England Census
about John Howell
Name: John Howell
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Walcot
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address: 87 Avon St.
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lansdown
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Emma Howell 40
James Howell 10
John Howell 5


View
Original
Record

View original image

for ref also

Marriages Sep 1872 (>99%)


HEMLIN Emma Bath 5c 1001
Howell James Bath 5c 1001

only 2 John's Howell's born in Bath in that time period

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1876 (>99%)
Howell John Bath 5c 690

Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
Howell John Herbert Bath 5c 572

The John Howell who married Margaret Evans in 1895 did not show a middle name and this looks like the marriage of the second John Howell born in 1876

Marriages Dec 1903 (>99%)
HOWELL John Herbert Bath 5c 1153

1891 for info
John Howells
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, England

Civil parish: Penbryn
Ecclesiastical parish: Penbryn
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Newcastle In Emlyn
Sub-registration district: Penbryn
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Jones 68
Mary Jones 72
Frances Jones 34
Anne Jones 30
Daniel Jones 27
Margaret Jones 25
John Evans 16
John Howells 16

1901

note he is spelling his surname with an "s"

John Howells
Age in 1901: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath

Civil parish: Llandygwydd
Ecclesiastical parish: Llandygwydd St Dygwydd
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

could the father's name be Uriah?

Uriah Howells
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Minstead, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Minstead
Town: Minstead
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: New Forest
Sub-registration district: Lyndhurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 98
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Howells 38
Jane Howells 40
Mary Howells 16
Samuel Howells 12
Uriah Howells 10
Ann Howells 6
Emanuel Howells 4
Elak Howells 2
Christopher Howells 1

this one is a bit young but would have been 16 in 1876 so not imposible.

the 1871 census just before Emma married, she is a widow and wood seller, James Howell is a boarder and hawker


Name: Emma Hembler
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Walcot
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lansdown
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 197
Household Members:
Name Age
Emma Hembler 34
Alfred Hembler 8
James Howell 20




Is it at all possible that John's marriage certificate says UNKNOWN for his father's name


on edit Or Uriah that sounds reasonable too, lol

Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%)
Howells Uriah 50 Bridgend 11a 325

but this would be the one in the 1871 census


Births Dec 1860 (>99%)
HOWELLS Uriah New Forest 2b 516


this would be the one who died in 1889


Births Sep 1839 (>99%)
Howell Uriah Bridgend &c 26 309


I wonder whether Teresa is reading, I am curious about the "Uarofa" and whether it could be something else

Hi Ann of Green Gables

Thanks have got that information, but was not sure that I had the right John

Teresa

Hi bruceabt 1959

Thanks that seems to be the only John Howell left that it could be from Bath John died with my grandparents in Cardigan abt 1956 ,so that wasn't him in Bath in 1903

Teresa

Hi Bruceabt 1959

I've actually saved the 1871 census of Emma Hembler, the thing is she says she is a widow, but Hembler could be her maiden name, as it varies in that family from Hemblen,Hemblin,Hembler and even hamblin, even stranger that she has a boarder called James Howell, and I also can't find her son Alfred after 1871.

Several relatives have looked at the name on the certificate and been baffled, but we took it back to the local registra, who wrote it out as Uarofa, as he had found the copy for us. I wonder had his father died, and he was never told his name, was he running away from something, or perhaps he was illiegitimate.

Would the key to all this be in finding the brother James, because I did find a Emma Howell in prison in 1891, but there was no record of her age or date of birth

Are. there any later records which can give a persons actual birthday, as the John Howell in Bath was born in April, its a shame that a few relatives that could answer this question are not alive to help with his actual birthday.

I am just amazed and grateful how everyone responded so quickly, thanks to everyone for the help so far.

Teresa

I should have said, I looked at the image of the 1871 census and I think it is clearly Hemblen it is just that Ancestry has transcribed it as Hembler. So it seems quite certain that the 1871 household is Emma Hemblen with James Howell before their marriage, but the marriage certificate should make that clear e.g. by showing their ages, his occupation, her status as widow or spinster (but you are right, 'widow' might have been a fib for respectability).

bruceabt1959


I'm glad that you've come to the same conclusion as me about Emma Hemblen possibily lying about being a widow. The problem as you see occurs before 1891, as we have positive identification from this date on, until his death. He had even said that he had worked in the mines in South Wales before arriving in Penbryn in 1891, but never discussed his life in Bath.

I shall go and have another look at his marriage certificate, but I know I will only find that unusual name. Having his actual birthday is the answer, but how?

Whether Emma Hem__ is the mother of your John or not we can't say yet but I thought I would add her 1851 census record because it seems she was as you say single rather than widowed in 1871



Name: Emma Hemblen
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Isaac
Mother's Name: Elizh
Gender: Female
Where born: Bath
Civil parish: Walcot
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lansdown
ED, institution, or vessel: 1e
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 208
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Hemblen 60
Elizh Hemblen 54
John Hemblen 17
Emma Hemblen 15
Jane Hemblen 11
Elizh Hemblen 9



She got younger and more married as time went on, lol.


also 1841 in Walcot Somerset


Isaac Hembline 50
Elizabeth Hembline 35
Mary Hembline 25
Sarah Hembline 15
Elizabeth Hembline 13
Jno Hembline 9
Emma Hembline 7
Jane Hembline 3

bruceabt1959

Emma certainily seemed a character, thanks for the 1841 and 1851 census. I will continue to search for her son Alfred and also James and hope that I will find a connection.

The only other option I have is to find records of his later life, in hope that his birthdate was at some point registered, what records contain your birthdate I'm not sure, do you or anybody else have an answer to this.