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My GG grandfather was a Peter Kenney. He married Mary Gilbert in Plymouth in Oct 1862 and they had a daughter Frances b Oct 1985.
From the birth cert of Frances and his marriage cert I know he is a Royal Marine. His father was John Kenney.
Census searches have thrown up a few misfits.
Does anyone out there recognise this family?
Viv

Hi,

This is a longshot, but is there a connection to Tiverton Devon?

Brian.

Does his marriage certificate state an age? Useful for trawling through the censuses and looking for birth records.

Do you also want to say who the misfits were, to save anyone else time spent finding them?

btw, it's unlikely we're connected, but I'm not being totally nosy -- my grx2 grmother was Dorcas Kenney, born abt 1828 in Welford, Northamptonshire.

The surname is often Irish in origin. And at least in my case, the spellings Kenney and Kenny seem to have been somewhat interchangeable.

With those things in mind, is this a candidate for being your Peter in 1851?


Name: Peter Kenny
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Corporal 30th Regt (Corporal)
Gender: Male
Where born: Augh, Galway, Ireland

Civil Parish: Walmer
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Eastry
Sub-registration district: Sandwich
ED, institution, or vessel: North Barracks
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1



It seems that wasn't a Marines outfit though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_(Cambridgeshire)_Regiment_of_Foot


The 30th (Cambridgeshire) Regiment of Foot was an infantry regiment of the British Army, formed in 1702 and amalgamated into The East Lancashire Regiment in 1881.

The regiment was raised in February 1702, and saw service as marines, titled as the 1st Regiment of Marines. They converted back to conventional infantry in 1714. In 1751, they were numbered the 30th Regiment of Foot, and in 1782 took a county title as the 30th (Cambridgeshire) Regiment of Foot.

This is obviously him in 1861, no?


Name: P Kenny
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: East Stonehouse
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: East Stonehouse
Sub-registration district: East Stonehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Marine Barracks Plymouth Division
Household schedule number: 1


Alternatively, this could be him -- but this one's a mite old, and not stationed in Plymouth:


Name: Peter Kenny
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Relation: Pte
Gender: Male
Where born: Athaweyt, Galway, Ireland

Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Hamoaze Devonport
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Anglesey
Sub-registration district: Holyhead
ED, institution, or vessel: Conqueror
Household schedule number: 1

"a daughter Frances b Oct 1985"

Um ... 1885? Even that is 23 years after the marriage ...


Proofread proofread proofread.


1865 maybe?


Name: Frances Kenney
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: East Stonehouse
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 295


Peter's death? Are these things you know and didn't say?


Name: Peter Kenney
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Year of Registration: 1869
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 32
District: East Stonehouse
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 231

Duplicate/corrected entry of Mary Ann Gilbert Kenney's remarriage:


Name: Mary Ann >> Kenney
Year of Registration: 1869
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: East Stonehouse
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 554

Name: Mary Ann >> Kenny
Year of Registration: 1869
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: East Stonehouse
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 554


-- it's a duplicate; the marriage was recorded in the GRO under both surnames.

Unfortunately, there's a groom missing from the page ...

Or later:


Name: Mary Ann Kenny
Year of Registration: 1879
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Plymouth
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 392


To Alfred Patrick Brennan or Samuel Henry Gale.

If that was your Mary Ann marrying in 1869, she didn't marry the one man transcribed as being on the same page; John Henry Mason married the other bride, Ellen Grace Ball. In 1871:

Ellen G Mason 26
John H Mason 28
John J B Mason 5 months


Do you know the story after Frances's birth? I assume so, so I should stop frittering away time on it. ;)

I was originally looking to find Peter in 1871, to get his birth date/place details, but if he died in 1869, that won't work.

The 1869 marriage:

(From Plymouth marriage index)

Date 17 Oct 1869
Groom Henry JACKSON
Bride Mary Ann KENNEY
Church: St George, Stonehouse

and just in case you didn't have them in the 1871 census:

Name: Mary A Jackson
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Stonehouse, Devon, England

Civil Parish: East Stonehouse
Ecclesiastical parish: East Stonehouse
Town: East Stonehouse
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: East Stonehouse
Sub-registration district: East Stonehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Household schedule number: 232
Household Members: Name Age
Emma Blowey 22 Cousin
Rosena Gilbert 1 Niece
Fanny Jackson 5 Dau
Mary A Jackson 26 Head
Susan E Jackson 1 dau

Class: RG10; Piece: 2126; Folio: 22; Page: 38;

To search for information about Peter KENNEY you may find that you can gain some additional information in his service records.

Although these records are not available online you will be able to find out what is held by the National archive by checking the research guides on their website

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=56

Good one, Pete. I'd started to search censuses by "Fanny" and then wandered off for dinner ...

Let's hope Viv sees all this ...

Some great leads folks, thank you.
Info that I confirm and which has been verified is as follows:-
I have
Marriage cert for Peter KENNEY to Mary Ann GILBERT 12.Oct 1862 5b395 Dec Qt. Peter's profession is stated as Royal Marine and he is a bachelor.
Mary Ann - spinster. Both are 'of full age' and living at 5 Mount St Plymouth.
Peter's father is John KENNEY Labourer and Mary's father is William GILBERT Pensioner. Witnesses are Mary Jane TAYLOR and William GILBERT.

Birth certificate for Frances KENNEY 10 Oct 1865 5b295 Father- Peter Kenney Cpl RM; Mother Mary Ann Kenney formerly Gilbert Address 2 Little Durnford St Plymouth.

Marriage Cert for Frances KENNEY 1 Jun 1885 5b 611
Name given as Fanny Spinster aged 21 Address Wilton St St Dameral - father Peter Kenney Royal Marine.
William Martyn (Carpenter) aged 23 Address Wilton St Stoke Dameral.

I had already noted a Peter Kenney in 1861 census aboard a vessel named Grace - as far as I can ascertain this is not a military vessel but a fishing boat - I'm still working on this link. This Peter comes from Killibags Co Donegal and again needs further research. I have also found a death of a Peter Kenney aged 32 in 1869 and Kathryn has possibly opened a door by providing details of a Mary Ann Jackson in the 1871 census. So I'm off to investigate this further - she could well be the widow, remarried and the rest of the household would fit into this profile.

This was my first venture into the 'Trying to find' list so I hope I'm doing everything correctly. Thanks to all who have answered my initial plea for help.
Regards
Viv

Ah, I read your PM before looking at the thread -- yes indeed, you did do it right, there's your post all perfect.

I ruled out that third Peter Kenney in 1861 as well, Viv -- the one in Cornwall on a vessel with one other person. I should have mentioned him:

Name: Peter Kenney
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Sea Man
Gender: Male
Where born: Killibags County, Donegal, Ireland

Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: St Ives Pier
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: St Ives
ED, institution, or vessel: Grace


The household list as compiled by Ancestry shows a bunch of other people, but in fact he was one of only two men on the vessel -- and he was married.

The P Kenny at the Royal Marine Barracks Plymouth Division is the obvious and perfect candidate, I'd say.

At that point I become useless, when it gets to Irish records, but I think following up on Pete's suggestion about his military records is the best course.

The Peter Kenny who died in 1869 has the same year of birth as the one in the Marine barracks in Plymouth in 1861. Sounds like your man; certainly worth getting the death cert to see what it says.

And thanks to Pete for finding the full info about the marriage I'd found, and the 1871 census (that was Pete). Knowing whom we're looking for now, here's Henry Jackson's half of the registration in the GRO, from FreeBMD:


Marriages Dec 1869
Jackson Henry East Stonehouse 5b 551


Mary Ann's entry says page 554. I'll do a quick visual check ... 554 is correct; Henry's entry has been mistranscribed.

That marriage certificate will tell you for sure whether she's your Mary Ann.

Just fyi, these are my Kenny/Kenney-s in Welford, Northamptonshire, in 1841 -- the name gets spelled both ways:


Name: James Kenney
[James Kenny]
- my father's mother's father's mother's father
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1787
Gender: Male
Where born: Northamptonshire, England

Civil Parish: Welford
Hundred: Guilsborough
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Registration district: Lutterworth
Sub-registration district: Lutterworth

Ann Kenney 53 - my grx3 grmother Ann Goodfellow
Ann Kenney 10
Dorcus Kenney 15 - my grx2 grmother (later Dorcas Campion)
Eliza Kenney 25
Elizabeth Kenney 15
James Kenney 54
John Kenney 5
Mary Kenney 20


These folks were mainly pretty dirt-poor. I haven't pursued them much beyond finding that couple's 1811 marriage ... I should see whether my Irish suspicions are correct!

Viv,

If you are based in the UK the military records are likely to provide you with the clues you need to make further progress. If Peter Kenney's enlistment papers still exist you will get his place of birth and age from those documents.

His death certificate may give you some service details to help identify him in the RM records.

I have no experience of Irish records but understand that civil registration did not start in Ireland until many years after the England and Wales records. This means that you are going to be reliant on parish records - hence you will need to ascertain his place of birth from his RM records.

At least you do have the name of his father from his marriage certificate. It is a pity that the 1851 census only listed a place of birth of Ireland rather than the specific place name.

Incidentally, if you plan on doing some work on the GILBERT line let me know as I have some pre-1837 Plymouth parish record transcripts on CD which may be of use.

Pete

You guys are great - a further investigation into the Jackson family census info actually has William & Elizabeth Gilbert (Mary's parents) living in the same house. It was only by viewing the actual census that it became obviuos.
Have already ordered the death cert for Peter Kenney & the marr cert for Henry Jackson & Mary Kenney - she didn't waste much time getting hitched - probably find he was a shipmate of Peter!!
Next step will be to trace Mary's father and get a snapshot of Henry.
Thanks again

Thought you'd like to know that the death cert for Peter Kenney stacks up - he died of pneumonia on 21st Jun 1869 aged 32. In Dec of the same year Mary Ann Kenney married Henry Jackson. Mary states that she is 'single' (rather than a widow). Interesting to note that Henry was indeed a RM Private - as was Peter's prfoesssion on the death certificate. My next stop will have to be RM records to establish where he was born, then, if it is Ireland I'll be into coompletely new territory.
Thanks to everyone who responded. If I find the answers I'll post a notice for you all,