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I am trying to find what happened to my grandmothers sister Morgan Ratcliffe she was born in 1885 in Staffordshire But she was 15 years old & living in Shirebrook Derbyshire when she appeared in the the 1901 census along with her father John aged 38 mother Sarah 42 brother James 17 my grandmother Phoebe 10 & brother Mark 8 but I haven't been able to find a BMD certificate for her she seems to have just disapeared after 1901 could anyone give me any idea's where to look
thankyou Colleen

Can you show us her birth record, e.g. from FreeBMD?

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

I don't see one to match at all.


You must have double-clicked ... or got tired of waiting for this site to function. ;) Please do delete the duplicate post.

Just for background:
1901 England Census
John Ratcliffe
Age: 38 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Ann Sarham Ratcliffe Gender: Male Where born: North Stafford Civil parish: Pleasley Ecclesiastical parish: Shirebrook Town: Shirebrook County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Registration district: Mansfield Sub-registration district: Pleasley ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 230

John Ratcliffe 38
Sarah Ann Sarham Ratcliffe 42
James Ratcliffe 17
Morgan Ratcliffe 15
Phoebe Ratcliffe 10
Mark Ratcliffe 8

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3134; Folio: 120; Page: 45.

The 1901 census

Name: Morgan Ratcliffe
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Ratcliffe
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann Sarham Ratcliffe
Where born: North Stafford

Civil parish: Pleasley
County/Island: Derbyshire

John Ratcliffe 38
Sarah Ann Sarham Ratcliffe 42
James Ratcliffe 17
Morgan Ratcliffe 15
Phoebe Ratcliffe 10
Mark Ratcliffe 8


The mother's name is confused. There is an entry that does look like "Sarham", wife, married, age 42. Above it is written Sarah Ann.

... I'll leave this because it is infinitely more readable. ;)

for reference

1901
John Ratcliffe -38- born North Stafford - reding Derbyshire Pleasley -Coal Miner Hewer

James Ratcliffe -17- born North Stafford - residing Derbyshire Pleasley Coal Hewer

Sarah Ratcliffe - 42 - born North Stafford- residing Derbyshire Pleasley

Morgan Ratcliffe- 15 -born North Stafford - residing - Derbyshire Pleasley Juvenile

Pheobe Ratcliffe -10- born North Stafford - residing Derbyshire Pleasley -Juvenile
-
Mark Ratcliffe - 8 - born North Stafford -residing Derbyshire Pleasley- Juvenile

Son James is present in 1891 and 1901:
1891 England Census
John Ratcliffe
Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Ann Ratcliffe Gender: Male Where born: Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Stoke Upon Trent Ecclesiastical parish: Shelton
County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Registration district: Stoke Upon Trent Sub-registration district: Shelton ED, institution, or vessel: 17

John Ratcliffe 26
Sarah Ann Ratcliffe 32
John Ratcliffe 8
James Ratcliffe 7
Mary Ann Ratcliffe 1

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2173; Folio 4; Page 2; GSU roll: 6097283.

?
Births Sep 1885
Hardman Morgan Bromsgrove 6c 384
Births Jun 1889
Hardman Phoebe May Cannock 6b 533

Probably not, as Phoebe is wrong age.

Added: No, Morgan is male, in 1891 and 1901.

I think "Morgan" might actually be Mary Ann (Maryan?). It's a very odd name for a girl.

I've considered the 1891 that patchem posted as well -- it clearly says "1" for the age of that Mary Ann, but everything else fits.


Hanley is in Stoke T reg dist

Births Sep 1889
Ratcliffe Mary Ann Stoke T. 6b 208


So I suspect age rounding in 1901, and bad handwriting.

Where is Phoebe in 1891?
And any birth for her in free bmd?

Added:
Unless this is her, with 'age rounding'
Births Sep 1891
Ratcliff Phoebe Stoke T. 6b 214

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1893
Ratcliffe Mark - Stoke T. 6b 225


Births Sep 1891
Ratcliff Phoebe - Stoke T. 6b 214 - ( aged 10 in 1901 )

Are John and Sarah on 1911 cesus ?
If so it should tell how long married.

Fastyr mie Phoebe was born 2nd August 1891 she married Ernest Willi Buckby in 1913 she died 9th June 1973 But on her death certificate it says her birthday was 4th August 1891 my uncle registered the death & put the wrong date down
I have my grandmother Phoebe's death certificate but have not been able to find her birth certificate but she used to take us to Hanley staffs when we were children i met her brother Mark when i was a child but sadly everyone has now gone so i haven't anyone to give me answers , how can I find out if John Ratcliffe was their step father & if he was how do I go about finding what their birth fathers name was
Colleen

The certificates I posted for Mark and Phoebe above would indicate that John was their father as they have his surname.

It you can discover Sarah's maiden name from those certs it will be possible to trace her marriage.

If it took place after Mary / Morgan was born then maybe she was registered under a different name.

You're welcome.

Perhaps you would read through again and let us know whether the time and effort put into your question came up with answers you think are reasonable -- that there was no "Morgan Ratcliffe", she was Mary Ann Ratcliffe, for instance.

Any child's birth certificate would have the mother's birth surname on it.

The registration Mike posted for Phoebe Ratcliff matches perfectly with an August 1891 birth.

Mike, I have found a John Ratliffe born 1863 in the 1911 census But, his wife name is Jane thanks for your help
And yes Janey , it seems that someone 's writting was bad & the name was interpreted as Morgan instead of Maryann O instead of A & G instead of Y makes a lot of sence

There were 2 John Racliffes born 1863 hanley staffs.In 1891 and 1901 one was married to Jane born Whitchurch.

191193,Portland Road Shirebrook near Mansfield
Sahar Ann Ratclife she spelt it like that born 1862 Married 28 years born Hanley Staffs

Phoebe 1892 Hanley.

Mark 1884 hanley
Alfred grandson born Shirebrook 1907.

Maryb

1911 your John Ratcliffe

17,High St Mansfield Woodhouse Notts
Alfred Consterdine 1887
Mary Ann Consterdine born North Staff Hanley married 3years (I think this is nee Ratcliffe)
John Ratcliffe coal miner hewer born 1865 North Staffs hanley Visitor.
Emma 3 Daughter Born Shirebrook married Everett Ralph hawkins born 1907
Phoebe Consterdine daughter 1 born Shirebrook. married in 1931 to Vernal Beaumont Baxter born 1909 Staffs.

Maybe William Consterdine 1913 Mansfield Notts mum nee Ratcliffe.He may have died the same year.

Maryb

Hi Mary I can remember an aunty Emma & uncle Ralph Hawkins when I was a child we used to visit them I can't remember a lot about them being so young at the time But I can remember a girl called Jeanie Hawkins her parents names were Emma & Ralph & they lived in Mansfield Woodhouse Notts The name Consterdine rings seems to stir up a few memories but I don't know why I was born in Shirebrook My dad was the youngest child of Phoebe Ratcliffe & Ernest Willi Buckby all your help is proving to be very helpfull thankyou Colleen