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Dear all,
I am very keen to see military records for my Great Grandfather, William Clunas. I have a some information (Dover Castle, 1888; Gibraltar 1892; Bombay 1895, Sheerness 1901; Felixstowe 1904) but just from census and birth certificates of family.
Is anyone able to help look up more detail of his military records?
Many thanks in advance
Bob

The TNA may have a service record/pension record

or Ancestry

Or try googling firepower - the artillery museum in Woolwich

MB

Hi,
Yes, I was wondering if anyone was going to the National Archive and could do a look up for me.
regards
Bob

Robert

There is MIC on ancestry for a william clunas in the RE
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1262&iid=30850_A000339-02141&fn=William&ln=Clunas&st=r&ssrc=&pid=733879


There are also two William Clunas records on Ancestry for Pension/service. From the info you've given looks like it could be the same chap is your William from Elgin area in Scotland born july 1868.

Do you a sub to ancestry to look a these - the service record/pension is VERY interesting reading

MB

On the first of these William's in the Artillery and then aged 51 he joins the RE for WW1 service (the MIC is for the same person). This second record gives him living at an address in Inverness. His next of kin is a Mrs E Clunas

Is this your man - does this fit with info you already know?

MB

Did he & Ellen have a child called Jessie born in Bombay 12 June 1895 baptised in St Andrews Church on 8th July 1895?

I think this is YOUR man.

MB

Hi,
Yes,
I got the pension info and WW1 info off Ancestry. Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by MIC?

When you say "the service record/pension is VERY interesting reading" is there more information?
thanks for your help
Bob

Hi
"Did he & Ellen have a child called Jessie born in Bombay 12 June 1895 baptised in St Andrews Church on 8th July 1895?"

Yes, thats them! Where did you find that??

I knew from 1901 census that they had a child (Ellen) in Gibraltar anf then Jessie in Cobala, Bombay in 1895 but not the exact detail. Any more!

cheers
Bob

If you say you already have the info from Ancestry then you'll not get much more than that, if anything from TNA.

He record does make interestiing reading - especially the medical record - he was clearly not a well man through his own making.

MIC = Medal Index Card - shows what medals he got from WW1

I found all this from Ancestry by looking through both records a total of 18+ pages.. It gives Births of both Jessie (bombay) and Ellen in Gib, and Annie and Louisa, details of his marriage to Ellen Louise JOnes in Dover witnesses etc

Your open line was 'I am very keen to see military records for my Great Grandfather, William Clunas'

If you said you already had this info from Ancestry it would have been easier.

MB

Robert

if you go to this site and put i william's name and search you'll get links to the records I refer too.

http://www.genealogylinks.net/uk/england/index.html

MB

Hi MB,
I had not found any of these records you mentioned. Only the 1901 census records. I will go to Ancestry site and see if I can see what you have found. I am particularly interested in the medals as there is a family story that his medals are in a museum near Inverness.
thanks for your help.
Bob

Hi MB,

"He record does make interestiing reading - especially the medical record - he was clearly not a well man through his own making."

-I can't see a medical record - can you point me to where you founds that?

"MIC = Medal Index Card - shows what medals he got from WW1"

- I found that -Great! Is there anyway to determine what these medals are from the info on the card?

I found all this from Ancestry by looking through both records a total of 18+ pages.. It gives Births of both Jessie (bombay) and Ellen in Gib, and Annie and Louisa, details of his marriage to Ellen Louise JOnes in Dover witnesses etc"

-Sorry, I'm not sure where to find this from what you've said. can you point me in a bit further.

Sorry to ask soo many questions but this is more information that we have found in the last year looking.

many many thanks
Bob

Hi MB,
I've found it now by clicking through the pages. I see what you mean! Oh dear! Well he made it to 1933 never the less and he was in WW1.
Any thoughts on how to identify his medals.
Bob

Robert

Glad you found all the info - you should count yourself very lucky as this is one of the most 'full' records I've seen. Details of service countries dates, details of marriage, birth details of children. Details of next of kin his wife and parents, Addresses of where he lived and next of kin addresses. Medical records are always a good read, the description of the person height, chest size, eye colour, scars etc. Perhaps you 'see' a resemblance. I was confused by the comment of good character and temperate.. which I'd say contradicts a few stays in hospital due to alcohol!?!?

For details of the medals try http://www.1914-1918.net/mics.htm it'll help with understanding the card.

MB

Hi MB,
Yes, this is quite a read. I'm still taking it in. I can see a family resemblance although I'm quite a bit taller and I don't drink! Could you read what it says about his nose (I'm wondering if it means he had a boxers nose).

All I have to do now is find some more info on his wifes family...since you've been so helpful I may enlist your help again!
Bob

Robert
There is just so much info about William here - he was a tailor to MA Malson(?) in Elgin, he served an apprentice
He signed the front page – his actual signature – I’m always amazed when I see soldier’s signatures. He had a trade, he could write & assume read – so why did he want to join the Army, as a low ranking soldier – it was going to be very hard but then may be not as hard as being a tailor in Elgin.

Re his nose
It does say something if (remember that a large f like this was double s) so issered or is it esser?sed nasal bou?es or bones but it does look like a U and not an N. Not sure. Is there a family trait relating to noses?

After all his service he earned 24 1/2 pence per day in pension

After Gib & India he returned to be a tailor rejoining in 1919 and seeing service in France for over a year.

Ellen travelled with him so would have been aware of his alcoholism – it must have been very difficult for her and the children.

Always happy to help however, Ellens’ maiden name was Jones – good luck

MB

Hello Robert,
I'm sorry to butt in here but I've been reading about your William with great interest. These Army records are wonderfully enlightening.
Is this your man here?


1881 Scotland Census
about William Clunas
Name: William Clunas
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Alex
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Elgin, Elginshire
Registration Number: 135
Registration district: Elgin
Civil Parish: Elgin
County: Moray
Address: 33 Bridge St
Occupation: Tailor
ED: 14
Page: 7 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 46
Line: 15
Roll: cssct1881_39
Household Members:
Name Age
Alex Clunas 37
Alexander Clunas 15
Annie Jane Clunas 1
Elizabeth Clunas 3
James Clunas 11
John Clunas 7
Margaret Clunas 38
Peter Clunas 9
William Clunas 13
James Freaser 9
Margaret Lawrance 68
Margaret Deans Winchester 12
Mary Winchester 39


If it is, I was wondering if you had the following.



WILLIAM CLUNES Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
13 JAN 1868 Elgin, Moray, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: ALEXANDER CLUNES Family
Mother: MARGARET WINCHESTER




and



Reference No.:
NM020019
Surname:
CLUNAS
Forename(s):
ALEXANDER
Maiden Name:

Occupation:
LABOURER
Date of Birth:
07 FEB 1844
Place of Birth:
DYKE
Father's Name:
PETER CLUNAS AGRICULTURAL LABOURER
Mother's Name:
MARGARET SIMPSON
Biography:


Marriage Details
Spouse's Name:
MARGARET WINCHESTER
Date of Marriage:
09 JUN 1865
Place of Marriage:
ELGIN
Married by:

Marriage Narrative:
PARENTS OF MARY & ALEXANDER & WILLIAM & JAMES & PETER & JOHN & ELIZABETH & ANNIE & MAGGIE

Death Details
Date of Death:
29 MAR 1911
Age:
67
Headstone Ref:

Place of Death:
5 EAST BACK STREET BISHOPMILL ELGIN
Parish Register:

Death Narrative:


Newspaper Articles
Newspaper

Description

Date

Page/Column
COURANT
death
31/03/1911

5/7

Miscellaneous Articles
Date

Description
Miscellaneous
1910-1911

entry in register of poor for parish of Spynie - MF D Sy2 [ZPSy A5/7 p166]





Reference No.:
NM209666
Surname:
CLUNAS
Forename(s):
MARGARET
Maiden Name:
WINCHESTER
Occupation:

Date of Birth:
26 MAR 1843
Place of Birth:
SPYNIE
Father's Name:
WILLIAM WINCHESTER LABOURER QUARRYWOOD
Mother's Name:
MARGARET LAWRENCE
Biography:
LIVED AT 6 EAST BACK STREET ELGIN

Marriage Details
Spouse's Name:
ALEXANDER CLUNAS
Date of Marriage:
09 JUN 1865
Place of Marriage:
ELGIN
Married by:

Marriage Narrative:
PARENTS OF MARY & ALEXANDER & WILLIAM & JAMES & PETER & JOHN & ELIZABETH & ANNIE & MAGGIE

Death Details
Date of Death:
17 AUG 1922
Age:
78
Headstone Ref:

Place of Death:
18A EAST BACK STREET BISHOPMILL ELGIN
Parish Register:

Death Narrative:
INTERRED AT SPYNIE CHURCHYARD

Newspaper Articles
Newspaper

Description

Date

Page/Column
NS
death
19/08/1922

3/1

Miscellaneous Articles
Date

Description
Miscellaneous
1912-1913

entry in register of poor for parish of Spynie - MF D Sy2 [ZPSy A5/7 p174]




One of my ancestor's siblings married a Winchester from Dyke as well. It's only a small place 2 miles from Forres, Moray. I was wondering if William's medals might be in the museum in Elgin. Can have a look next time I'm there if you like.
By the way, I think it reads 'depressed nasal bones'.


Liz

Dear MB,
Yes,it is indeed quite a story. When not enlisted he worked as a barracks labourer at Fort George near Inverness. There is a possibility he used his tailoring to make kilts for the men there as well.
He and Ellen are buried (unmarked) at Ardersier graveyard, which is the village next to Fort George. His daughter and my Grandmother, Louisa is also buried there with my Grandfather Robert MacIntosh.
Re Ellens family - I know she was born in the Bristol area and her father was George (he was also in the Royal Garrison Artillery),his wife was Mary.
Mary maiden name is on Ellens death certificate but noone has been able to read it! So we are a bit stuck.
Bob

Dear Liz,
Yes you've got all of that spot on. I'm in contact with two people who are extensively researching the Winchesters of Elgin (I have been able to go back on one of the maternal lines to 1690!).If you give me details of your Winchester I can see were they fit in.

Re the medals. I beginning to think it may be a different William Clunas. There is another William Clunas born 1898 who was also in the Royal Engineers. However, if you can enquire in Elgin that would be great. i have made enquires at the Regimental Museum at Fort George and they have medals for a Clunas but not a William. i still want to go and have a look for myself.

Re the nose - yes that looks a possibility.

He also had a tattoo on his thumb - I wonder what that was about??
Bob

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