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sorry folks....are you saying that the 1841 shows Mary Wakefield aged 4 months ( as being the child of Mary & Thomas - ie Harriets sister) ?
and therefore in the 1851 census the Mary F Snoad shown is actually Mary Wakefield??

....the Mary in 1851 is shown as being born in Liverpool
Can someone take a look again at the 1841 census please & let me know where everyone was born & their occupations.
(sorry to be a pain) - appreciate your help
Gill

Mary is shown as 4 months old in the 1841 census, which was taken on the 6th June 1841, so this would put Mary being born in the Jan-Feb-March quarter of 1841.

There's only one likely birth entry for her:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Mary Anne Wakefield
Name: Mary Anne Wakefield
Year of Registration: 1841
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20

Strange that she was born in Lancashire, but that does seem to tie in with the 1851 census. You could use the info above to get the birth certificate, which might show the father, but it's a £7 risk!

There's nothing in the 1841 census that ties in to the marriage with Francis. Harriet's father Thomas is shown as a Hair ...... (I can't make out what the .... bit says).

The marriage cert should of course give Harriet's fathers name and occupation, so might link that marriage back to the 1841 family. Another £7!!

It seems likely that Harriet hadn't met Francis in 1841. I wonder who William's father was.

Maybe Harriet was away in Lancashire (working in service maybe) when Mary was conceived and born, and she then returned home. Or maybe she married up there and it broke up, or he died, and she returned home and reverted to her maiden name.

Birth and marriage certs might give more clues as to the story.

Good luck.
David.

Does the 1841 census give any occupations at all please? or any other info to tie them in as family members ie street address etc?

Also, I have now got Francis & Harriet married in 1848.
Their children are born as follows:
Mary c1841
William c1846
both born before they married (?)
you woud expect Harriet & Francis to be living together for the 1841 census - wonder where he was?
more children:
Francis c1849
Walter 1854
Harriet c1856
Minnie 1856
Alfred 1858
Arthur 1862

Thanks again for all your help
Gill

David I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. So it's likely that she's Mary's child but not Francis's.

Ozi.

Having just seen Ozibird's latest message there seems room for some doubts here.

Still, if it was easy it wouldn't be so much fun :)

David

Thanks for the birth record. - really appreciated.

I am now hoping to find thge family in the 1841 census
Gill

I can't find Harriet with Francis in the 1841 census, or Francis on his own.

If Harriet's parents were Thomas and Mary (re Ozibird's message above) there's an 1841 census entry as follows:


1841 England Census
about Harriett Wakefield
Name: Harriett Wakefield
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Norton Folgate Liberty
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Artillery
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Trott 20
Caroline Wakefield 15
Charles Wakefield 8
Harriett Wakefield 20
Mary Wakefield 40
Mary Wakefield 4 Mo
Thomas Wakefield 40

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 701; Book: 15; Civil Parish: Norton Folgate Liberty; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 10; Folio: 24; Page: 11; Line: 18; GSU roll: 438814.

The baby Mary shown here may of course be the Mary A Snoad in the 1851 census.

David

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
Name: Francis John Snoad
Year of Registration: 1848
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3
Page: 78

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
Name: Harriett Saffery Wakefield
Year of Registration: 1848
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3
Page: 78



Mary isn't Harriet's child.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983

Name: Francis William Wakefield Snoad
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St George Southwark
County: Surrey
Volume: 4
Page: 541

none of those names mean anything - yet

Re the marriage, other people on the same page are:

Maurice Connolly 1858 Oct-Nov-Dec West Ashford Kent
Rowland Thomas George Legg 1858 Oct-Nov-Dec West Ashford Kent
Ann Phipps 1858 Oct-Nov-Dec West Ashford Kent
Mary Ann Snoad 1858 Oct-Nov-Dec West Ashford Kent

Do you recognise any of these?
David

This is likely to be Mary's marriage;
Mary A Snoad, 1858 Oct-Nov-Dec, West Ashford, Kent. Does it say who she married??

Hi David

Many thanks for all the info.
Yes please can you look for them in 1841.

Gill

Hi Gillian,
Address in 1851 Census looks like 3 Arthur Street, St Luke, Chelsea. Mary Snoad's birthplace is shown as Liverpool. Francis is shown as a Baker, born Canterbury, and Harriet is shown as a Hat Maker/Trimmer.

Looking at the census image Mary F could be Mary A and there are two possible marriage index entries in the period 1856+or- 5:

Mary A Snoad, 1854 Oct-Nov-Dec, Faversham, Kent
and
Mary A Snoad, 1858 Oct-Nov-Dec, West Ashford, Kent.

Do you want me to look in the 1841 Census for them?

David

IGI Individual Record

HARRIET SAFFERY WAKEFIELD
Christening: 06 FEB 1822 Saint Clement Danes, Westminster, London, England
Parents:
Father: THOMAS WAKEFIELD
Mother: MARY
Source Information:
Batch No.: C041601
Dates: 1813 - 1849

Hi David - yes it probably is them. I got 'Stroud' from another census - and it didnt quite make sense! but,Strand, Middlesex, England sound right.
I knew nothing of Mary Snoad aged 10 in 1851 - presume she married by 1861.(?)
Does it give a street address and occupation please?

Here's a Harriet Snoad, b1822, spouse Francis, but birthplace is given as Strand, Mddx.

1851 England Census
about Harriet Snoad
Name: Harriet Snoad
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Francis
Gender: Female
Where born: Strand, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Chelsea
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North West
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Snoad 29
Francis Snoad 2
Harriet Snoad 29
Mary F Snoad 10
William Snoad 5

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1473; Folio: 180; Page: 12; GSU roll: 87796.

Any help?
David

Harriet Wakefield born Stroud, Gloucester in 1822, married Francis Snoad born c1823 London .

I have them in the 1861 census living in London (she is a dairy keeper and he is a baker) and have found them in 1871 - (cant find them in 1881).

Could someone please take a look for them in the 1841 census and again in 1851 of pos. They would be with their children in 1851 census: William, born 1846 & Francis 1849.

Many thanks