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I am trying to break down a brick wall surrounding my ggg gfather Joseph Smith. All I know (or think I know) is that he was at one time a butcher and a farmer, that he was father of the children below and two more born in Castle Donington. I am hoping that the clerk entered some more details in the parish registers christening records for his children.
Would someone with access to the Heanor parish registers be able to lookup the people below please? The dates came from member submissions to the IGI.

Joseph Smith - 18th March 1830
Caleb Slater Smith - 10th February 1833
Fredric Smith - 18th May 1834
Sarah Elizabeth Smith - 25th May 1836

Many thanks.
Regards Geoffrey

Hi Geoffrey,

What was his wifes name do you know?

Ann

Hello Ann

His wife was Sarah Slater. This if from the birth certificate of my gg gfather Edward Smith.

Many thanks

Geoffrey

Hi Geoffry,

My eyes are sore! I have looked at all the heanor baps and the only one I can see for parents Sarah & Joseph is a Albert 1873........a bit too late!!

However it does state on the census that Frederick was born Leicestershire? the other siblings out of the county? Sarah was listed as "Butcher" no sign of Joseph Snr.

Ann

Hello Ann

Many thanks for looking so quickly. As I noted originally the christening records on the IGI appear to have been contributed and not transcribed from copies of the records so I did wonder how accurate they might be. I found Sarah in Castle Donington in 1841 but without husband Joseph and son Edward. I found her in 1851 in Alfreton I think (it began with an A anyway) but only the initials for the children were given. She was a widow by then. If I remember correctly she had a Lydia Roscoe with her on both occasions which was evidence that they were records of the same person. Sarah was from Gainsborough in Lincolnshire. I haven't a clue where Joseph was from so here stands the brick wall. There are strong family ties with Eastwood just over the border in Nottingham and Edward later lived in Boston, Lincolnshire.

Your help is very much appreciated thanks.

Kind regards

Geoffrey

p.s. Edward was a Congregationalist in Boston. If Joseph and the family were non-conformists would that make a difference where baptism records might be? Just a thought.

Thanks again.

Geoffrey

HI geoffrey,

Sorry so long getting back to you. I also saw the family on the 1841 census. Do you think Sarah was a widow in 1841? Dont know a lot about non-conformist records I'm afraid. Where does Edward come into the picture...is he one of the Castle Donnington children. Have you had time to search through the Heanor PR's yourself.

John you mentioned the accuracy of the "heanor" records. Lydia Roscoe who is in the Smith family household on the census was a teacher in Heanor school.
Ann

Hello Ann

No worries. I'm grateful for the effort you've put in so far.
I too had wondered whether Sarah was a widow in 1841. Edward is one of the Castle Donington children. On the 1851 cenus he is listed as E S Smith son of Sarah. His birth was notified by his father Joseph.

I have just received this from an enquiry about the marriage of Joseph and Sarah:



Request review
Yesterday (08th April) at 20:15
Joseph Smith of the parish of Heanor in the County of Derby & Sarah Slater of this parish (Eastwood, St Marys) were married by Banns on 18 Mar 1829.
Both sign their names.
Witnesses: Henry Brentnall & Thebe?? Taylor(X their mark) .
No other info is recorded.
Regards
Neil

I don't know if this helps at all.

Many thanks

Kind regards
Geoffrey

p.s. Just a thought; do you have access to the burial records for Heanor please? I wonder if Joseph had died and was buried there.

Thanks

Geoffrey

Hi Geoffrey
There is a site with information of births in Heanor ,but i imagine it would be The Church of England ..The births are from 1816 to 1894 but i cant see any of Joseph and Sarahs children on there. It is
www.taghill.co.uk
Best of luck Marion

Thanks Marion

Regards Geoffrey

Hello Ann

I just checked my records and found:

12th September 1839 at Castle Donington a boy, Frederick was born to Joseph Smith and Sarah Smith formerly Slater. Fathers occupation butcher and he registered the birth.

So we know for sure that Joseph was alive in 1839 and that Edward and Frederick are the two Castle Donington children. We think we know that the other children were from Heanor.
From the marriage details we know that in 1830 Joseph lived in Heanor and Sarah lived in Eastwood which makes it possible that the other children were born in Heanor or possibly not.

The wall may have a few cracks but not ready to crumble yet I think. :-)

Regards

Geoffrey

Hi Geoffrey,

What was the name of the parish they were living in 1841.

Ann

Hello Ann

In 1841, Sarah and family were living in the parish of Castle Donington in Apes Gate which is quite central.

I was thinking, why would Edward, who would be about 3 at the time, not be with his mother, brothers and sister and governess?
I thought maybe he could be:
a) somewhere with his father but where? I've looked but not found them, and as Sarah's occupation was a butcher maybe Joseph was dead.
b) with another relative somewhere but where?
c) missed off the census possibly by the enumerator when he transcribed it
d) ill in hospital

In 1851 they were in the Civil Parish of Alfreton and Ecclesiastical District of Ridddings (HO107/2145/470/17/67)

I have checked the register suggested by Marion in this thread and have checked GenoGold for burial of Joseph Smith in Heanor without success.

I wondered about posting an enquiry about burials in Castle Donington between 1839 and 1841. What do you think?

Geoffrey

Hi Geoffrey,

I dont have access to the 1851, so cant see for myself. Is the place where they lived in 1841 near Shardlow or am I completely off track?

Ann

Geoffrey,

The missing gap for Joseph is anywhere between 12th September 1839 and June 1841 when the census was taken.
My geograp[hy is quite bad unless in Wales, but I found these deaths.

Joseph Smith J/A/S 1840 @ Shardlow Ref: X1X 377
Joseph Smith A/M/J 1841 @ Shardlow Ref. X1X 391
Joseph Smith O/N/D 1839 @ Derby Ref. X1X 362
Joseph Smith O/N/D 1839 @ NewingtonRef. 1V 213

Ann

Hi Ann

You're spot on. Castle Donington is about three miles away from Shardlow. Shardlow is the registration district and according to Edward's birth certificate covered part of Derbyshire and part of Leicestershire. Castle Donington is in Leicestershire.

I have a copy of the 1841 and 1851 census pages thanks. In 1851 Sarah was family head and widow and a teacher. So we know that Joseph died somewhere between 1839 and 1851 and possibly between 1839 and 1841. She had an occupation in 1841 so maybe she was widowed by then.

Geoffrey

Thanks Ann

Looks as though your second note came while I was typing the answer to the first. I guess the references after Shardlow ar the GRO index. What are the letters before @ please?

Thanks

Geoffrey

Hi Ann

Ah! I got it. I should do thinking first. They are the months of the quarter.

Many thanks for sticking with me on this one. Your help has been invaluable.

I think I need to either speculate on a couple of death certificates or see if someone has access to parish records or memorial inscriptions for Castle Donington.

Many thanks.

Geoffrey