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please can anyone help find my Elders in the 1841 census. I have looked in vain but sometimes fresh eyes can do the trick!
the family are ALEXANDER ELDER b 1830 Shotts, Lanarkshire
ELIZABETH ELDER nee Aikenhead b 1806, Shotts (his mother)
ALEXANDER ELDER b between 1780 and 1795 Reay, Caithness
In 1851, Elizabeths mother ALISON ANDERSON b Shotts, is with them. I also cant find her in 1841, so they may all be together then. I would be hugely grateful if anone can turn them up. many thanks. jane

Hi Jane,

For ref;

1851 Scotland Census
about Alex Elder
Name: Alex Elder
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Elisabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Reay, Reaithress
Parish Number: 678
Civil Parish: Corstorphine
Town: Corstorphine
County: Midlothian
Address: Kirkhouse
Occupation: Railway Labourer
ED: 8
Page: 11 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 52
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1851_175
Household Members: Name Age
Alex Elder 56
Elisabeth Elder 43 born Shotts, Lanark
Robert Elder 14
William Elder 11
James Elder 9
Alison Elder 6
Jane Elder 3
Alison Anderton 70 born Chencores, Midlothian

No sign of Alexander born 1830, is this a 2nd marriage for Alexander born 1795??


Dee x

Alexander and Elizabeth marriage. So was Alexander born before they married or has his date of birth been adjusted on the Census or had Alex senior been married before?

ALEXANDER ELDER Pedigree
Male Family


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH AITKENHEAD Family
Marriage: 22 NOV 1833 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

I found this. Not that it is any help with locating them in the 1841. Did Elizabeths mother never marry?
Can you let us know what evidence you have found so far of Alexander Junior belonging to this family? It seems that all of the other children were baptised but there is nothing for Alexander unless he was born to Elizabeth before she married and he wasn't baptised at all and she later met and married Alexander Senior or Alexander senior was married before and he is a child of the previous marriage.



BETTY HAMILTON AIKENHEAD Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 12 JUL 1806 Shotts, Lanark, Scotland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: JAMES AIKENHEAD Family
Mother: ALISON ANDERSON

Still looking;

1861 Scotland Census
about Robert Elder
Name: Robert Elder
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relationship: Son
Mother's Name: Elisabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Canongate, Edinburgh
Registration Number: 685/1
Registration district: St George
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 88 Fountainbridge
Occupation: French Polisher
ED: 30
Household schedule number: 43
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1861_124
Household Members: Name Age
Elisabeth Elder 53 Born Shotts
Robert Elder 24
Janet Massman 23 Ladys maid

Wonder if this has got anything to do with your elders?? especially with Astra finding a Hamilton link???

1841 Scotland Census
about Elizabeth Elder
Name: Elizabeth Elder
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Cambuslang
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Bushy Hill
Occupation: Cotton H L W Army P
Parish Number: 627
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Elder 45
Elizabeth Elder 35
Alexander Elder 5
Janet Elder 1
James Hamilton 45
Agnes Hamilton 40
Thomas F Hamilton 20
Agnes HamiltonJr 12
William Hamilton 10
James HamiltonJr 8
Andrew Hamilton 8
Ann Hamilton 5

EDIT>>>>>>>> NOT YOUR FAMILY FOUND THEM IN 1851

Thought they would have to be in Dunbarton around 1841;

JAMES ELDER
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 15 SEP 1841 Kirkintilloch, Dunbarton, Scotland
Parents:
Father: ALEXANDER ELDER Family
Mother: ELISABETH AITKENHEAD

Dee x

Going back to Alexander born 1830, I wonder if his first childs name holds any clues??

MARY BUCHANAN SPEIRS ELDER Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth: 22 OCT 1863 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland


Parents:
Father: ALEXANDER ELDER Family
Mother: JANET MOSSMAN

thanks for all the looking. have been trying to unravel them all for ages!! think alex 1830 was illegitemate, as was his mother. why he called mary buchanan spiers, I haven't the foggiest. have been trying to find a connection there for even more ages!!!! and where were they in 1841???? ye gods and little fishes. many thanks. xxx

I did find this yesterday but I wasn't sure if it was relevant or not. But today it seems more likely. So I'm now wondering if we are following the right Alexander Elder family because if this is him he wasn't born in Lanarkshire. Jane can you let us know who your line descends from after Alexander to see if we can match it with one of his children

Alexander Buchanan Elder Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 10 NOV 1828

Christening: 02 DEC 1828 St Cuthbert, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: Alexander Elder Family
Mother: Janet Buchanan

these elders and buchanans are confusing!! I traced alex 1830 shotts from his son, my great grandads wedding cert. he says his dad alexander is a retired civil servant. alex 1830 shotts, is,in 1901 and he and janet mossman had a son alexander in edinburgh in 1875(think I have remembered that right), which is the right age for my great grandad in the 1901 census. my grandpa was also called alexander and his only sibling, edith mary was called after her mothers dead sister, so there were no more clues there. if anyone can find anything else out about this family I would be eternally grateful. many, many thanks. jane

pm from Jane

hello and thanks. my alex 1830 shotts m janet mossman in edinburgh. their children inc mary buchanan spiers elder,james and another alexander b 1875(if i remember rightly off top of my head). this alexander is my great grandad. he moved to birkenhead cheshire, married rosa morris of chester and had two children, edith mary and alexander donald elder(my grandpa). I really do appreciate all the looking and the help that you are giving me. many thanks. jane

So this is Alexander and Janet Mossman's son Alexander born in 1868

ALEXANDER ELDER Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 21 AUG 1868 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: ALEXANDER ELDER Family
Mother: JANET MOSSMAN


And this is that family in the 1871 census

Alexander Elder
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet
Gender: Male
Where born: Shotts, Lanark
Registration Number: 685/1
Registration district: St George
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: Charle Carnegie
Occupation: Deer Keeper Col Chequer
ED: 45
Household schedule number: 142
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1871_156
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Elder 41
Janet Elder 53
Mary Elder 7
Rachel Elder 6
Elizabeth Elder 4
Alexander Elder 2

And this is Alexander born 1868 with his wife in Cheshire in 1901.
I'm going to have to shut down shortly because A........ry is driving me up the wall. It's just so slow to load and it's doing my blood pressure no good at all!
What we think we know so far is that Alexander born 1830 was probably not the son of Alexander and Elizabeth. If the submitted IGI entry is to be believed then he was the son of Alexander and Janet Buchanan.......hence his own name and the name given to his eldest daughter. But where was he raised? It says on the later census records from the information given by him that he was born in Shotts but he doesn't appear with that birthplace in the earlier census records. So where was he raised and by whom? If Alex and Janet never married or if she died in childbirth then Alex senior could have given him to relatives to be raised.
Something to think about until later.

Alexander Elder
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rosa
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Tranmere St Catherine
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub registration district: Tranmere
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 163
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Elder 32
Rosa Elder 28

I did see this when I was following Alexander through the censuses;

Name: Alexander Elder
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Shotts, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 685/1
Registration district: St George
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St George
County: Midlothian
Address: 18 Charlotte Squre
Occupation: Butler
ED: 61
Household schedule number: 22
Line: 1


He works for James Crawford who is listed as"Lord Ardmillan Of Ardmillan Givan Ayrshire Judge Of The Court Of Session & Court Of Thote Mary In John "

Dee x

And again in 1851;

1851 Scotland Census
about Alexander Elder
Name: Alexander Elder
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Shotts, Lanarksh
Parish Number: 685/2
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: Minto Street
Occupation: Servant
ED: 50
Page: 4 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 10
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1851_183


Working for James Low who is listed as "Occupation: Col E I Co Petired List "

Dee x

So now we are back to Jane's original question. Where were they all in 1841!!

1841 is definitely the crunch!!!! this should be the year that alex 1830 would be with the family. can't find him in 1841 with any other family. can't find the family themselves and can't find grandma alison anderson.which makes it look quite likely that they were all together somewhere!
only thing that I can suppose is that they gave the census taker the slip somehow. alex senior seems to have worked on the railways. this I imagine is why the children were all born in different places, if they were following the building of the railway. i have no idea at all about the lives of railway builders in scotland in the 1840's. suppose it could be possible if they were moving from place to place that they may have lived like gypsies, staying in makeshift camps etc. perhaps this is why they don't tip up on the census. it's really the only thing that I can think of.it seems that you have all been looking for them in 1841 and have had no greater success that I have!!! but I am so grateful for all your great help and friendliness. if you manage to unearth any hidden treasure be sure to let me know! big fat thanks. jane xxx

I think that this may be Alexander Senior in 1841. I don't think that the Elizabeth with him is his wife more likely the wife of Manda (whoever that is). He is a railway ganger which fits in with being a railway worker in 1851. He has a young William with him. We thought that they may be in Dunbartonshire in 1841 because thats where James? (memory) was born.
So if this is him where were the others? Was Elizabeth somewhere else to give birth perhaps.

Alexander Elder
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1789
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil Parish: Kirkintilloch
County: Dunbartonshire
Address: Meckland
Occupation: Railway Ganger
Parish Number: 498
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Elder 52
William Elder 4
Elizabeth Elder 35
Manda Elder 34
William Autsen 60
Alexander Eld 32
Albert Johnson 14
Mary Johnson 11
Tonald McAgrzie 25
Jotes McKeyie 30