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Think my gt grandfather distorted the truth a bit so it is making me very frustrated. Here are the facts:

1911 census: gives his age as 50 born Carfdale, Salop - Corporation Carter at 24 Coven St, Wolverhampton.

1908: Still a carter on his daughter's wedding cert living at 24 Coven St, W'ton

1901: Still a carter for corporation on Son's birth cert.

1901: age 45 Corporation Carter born Coalbrookdale, Salop living at 24 Coven St, Wolverhampton.

1891: age 35 Labourer born Delbury, Salop living in Neenton, Bridgnorth

1887: married in Aston Botterell age 28

Not sure of his whereabouts in 1881, possibly single farmer's servant outdoors at Stottesden, Cleobury Mortimer (born Shropshire) age 23.

Not sure of his whereabouts in 1871, possibly servant at Stottesden, Shropshire (born Ludlow, Salop) age 17

Complete mistery but given that the year of birth could be anything from 1855 onwards anywhere in Shropshire, I can't find his birth record.

I cannot find his death either. I know he is alive in 1911 still living at 24 coven St, W'ton. I also know his name is on the rent books for the property until Dec 1916 then my granfather took over the rent in January 1917. His wife Ellen continued to live at Coven St until 1935 when she moved, but William was not on the electoral roll for this period.

I cannot find a death in Wolverhampton between 1911 and 1916. So when did he die?

I have a gt grandfather who wasn't born, or didn't die? Lol.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dee

Dee, that all looks very good but is their any chance you could tell use his name?

Roy

Ooops, sorry

William Palmer

What was his fathers name and occupation on the marriage cert?

Roy

FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

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WILLIAM PALMER Pedigree
Male


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 02 JAN 1853 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: WILLIAM PALMER Family
Mother: MARY


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C016182 1813 - 1859 0992145 Film NONE

C016182 1870 - 1871 0992145 Film NONE


Sheet: 00

Roy....I was going to say William

Jean......You Angel!!!

I have been looking for almost 1 year. That has got to be it. Thank you so much.

Just have to find his death now.

Birth

Name: William Palmer
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Ludlow
County: Herefordshire, Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 492


Diddlebury is in registration district Ludlow

LUDLOW REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Shropshire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Sub-districts : Cainham; Craven Arms; Diddlebury; Leintwardine; Ludlow; Munslow.
GRO volumes : XVIII (1837-51); 6a (1852-1946); 9A (1946-74).

Roy

And these look like siblings

1. ELIZA PALMER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 APR 1839 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

2. GEORGE PALMER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 APR 1847 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

3. MARY PALMER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 31 MAR 1850 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

4. WILLIAM PALMER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 JAN 1853 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

5. EDWIN PALMER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 AUG 1844 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

6. WALTER PALMER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 JAN 1857 Diddlebury, Shropshire, England


Roy

Thankyou roy.

I had already noted the birth record in Ludlow Dec 1852. But there is another one in Dec 1/4 1852 at Cleobury Mortimer 6a 513, which is as close to Dibblebury as Ludlow. Not sure which to go for.

Cleobury Mortimer has got it own registration district.

CLEOBURY MORTIMER REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Shropshire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.10.1935 (succeeded by Bridgnorth district).
Sub-districts : Cleobury Mortimer; Stottesden.
GRO volumes : XVIII (1837-51); 6a (1852-1935).

Township or Civil Parish
Aston Botterell
Bayton
Cleobury Mortimer
Coreley
Farlow
Highley
Hopton Wafers
Kinlet
Kinlet
Loughton
Mamble
Milson
Neen Savage
Neen Sollars
Rock
Silvington
Stottesden
Wheathill
Woodhouse
Registers now divided between Shropshire and Worcestershire districts


If the birth was in Diddlebury then the Ludlow one is the to go for,

Palmer is a common name at that time and in the shropshire area

If you look at the 1861/71 census their are several family's with son william around that location

Their are a couple of william's with father william in that location on the 1861 but none have got wife Mary? what was dad william's occupation.

Roy

Found this
1861
Name: William Palmes
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Westhorpe, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Wheathill
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Cleobury Mortimer
Sub registration district: Stottesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
William Palmes 48 born: Seaton Batch, Shropshire Occ is Ag lab
Mary Palmes 44 born: Seedfale, Herefordshire
Mary Palmes 11 born: Westhorpe
William Palmes 8 born: Westhorpe
Walter Palmes 4 born: Westhorpe
Mary Ann Palmes 1 Relation: Granddaughter

Daughter Mary, son's William and Walter birth's all match the Christening records on my earlier post

If this is them then it would suggest you need the Cleobury Mortimer birth cert,

I DON'T THINK YOUR RELLIES WANTED TO BE FOUND :-))

I will try and find them on the 1851

Roy

Now we are getting somewere

1851
Name: William Palmer
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Culmington, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Westhope
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Ludlow
Sub registration district: Leintwardine
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 48
Household Members: Name Age
William Palmer 37
Mary Palmer 35 born: Richards Castle, Herefordshire
Eliza Palmer 12 born: Diddlebury, Shropshire
John Palmer 10 born: Diddlebury, Shropshire
Edwin Palmer 7 born: Diddlebury, Shropshire
Mary Palmer 1 born: Diddlebury, Shropshire

Based on this with childrens birth place I think you are back to the Ludlow birth's

This family are just not very sure where they come from?

Roy

1841
Name: William Palmer
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Diddlebury
Hundred: Munslow (Lower Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: Ag lab

Registration district: Ludlow
Sub registration district: Munslow
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Palmer 25
Mary Palmer 25
Elizah Palmer 2

Roy

Possible deaths? for william born 1852

Name: William Palmer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 48
District: Wolverhampton
County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
Volume: 6b
Page: 318

and

Name: William Palmer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Year of Registration: 1929
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 75
District: Wolverhampton
County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
Volume: 6b
Page: 898


Roy

Roy

Thank you for all your hard work.

The two deaths you have mentioned are not the ones. The 1903 is too early - I have him on the electoral rolls and rent books until Dec 1916.

I ordered the cert for 1929 - not him.

I have been looking again (there is nothing in W'ton) however, I have found one in Shifnal (not too far away). Mar 1/4 1917 age 65 6a 971. age about right, If he died in Dec 1916 (his son took over rent in Jan 1917) the death date is also about right. But not sure whether to order the cert. (This would be the 3rd or 4th one)

I too have seen the Culmington census'.

As you say, its very difficult. I'm still not sure the Diddlebury is the correct baptism. In 1891 census he gives POB as Delbury, Salop. I asked the Shropshire Archives where Delbury was, there isn't one, but she said it was often used as an obrieviation for Diddlebury!

Williams ages and POB vary so much, I cannot pin him down.

1887 - marriage cert says he was 28 (born C1859) living in Aston Botterell
1891 - age 35 (born C1856 Delbury)
1901 - age 45 (born C1856 Coalbrookdale)
1911 - age 50/60? (born C1851/1861Carfdale)

abode: 24 Coven Street, W'ton

His wife Ellen is as bad

1887 - marriage cert says she was 28 too
1891 - age 28 again (born C1863 Stoke St Milborough, Salop)
1901 - age 40 (born C1861 Stoke, Staffs)
1911 - age 46 (born C1865 Stoke, Staffs)
The eletoral Roll from 1926 - 1935 says she was a widow
She died in 1943 age 78 (bornC1865)

That said, William must have died between 1911 and 1926. He is named as the father on his son's wedding cert in 1921 but it doesn't say deceased?? very confusing.

I'm finding it a big problem.

Even if I ordered the birth cert for 1852 Ludlow. How do I know it is him?

Not sure which is he in 1881, 1871 or 1861 !

Your help is very much appreciated, by the way, two heads are better than one, as they say.

Dee

What about this Roy?

I have found a marriage in Ludlow of a William Palmer 1837 Dec 1/4 V18 P120. Not sure who his wife may be, but there is a Mary Currier and a Maria Smart (noticed a Maria & William on census').

I wish they noted the mmn on the births back then!

I think I will have to order the death cert for 1917 in Shifnal. Hopefully the informant will tie-in with family members and it will give his actual birth date.

I can't think why he would have been in Shifnal? He was a Carter for the Wolverhampton Corporation, Maybe he died at work and had travelled to Shifnal?

I forgot to mention, I have been viewing buriels in Wolverhampton, but can't find him buried anywhere. I can't find his wife Ellen's buriel in 1943 either....they must have been buried elsewhere too!

I have been back and forth with this for the past year! Uhh!

I think that the only way to confirm which is him is to hope the death cert names a family member as the informant and then take it from their,

But given that the whole family seem to be confused about where they where actualy born then it will be a challenge but bear in mind that several locations they say they were born? Like on one census says Culmington, and Diddlebury plus the abbreviations and I think Seedfale should be Seifton, these places are all in the same area and Westhorpe is not a place but an area that i think at one time was a parish and included Diddlebury

I will have another look at this tonight


Roy

Thanks Roy, that would be very helpful

Update for Porkie Pie

Found his death: 25/12/1922 Union Workhouse, W'ton (born 20/11/1852) the christening on 2/1/1853 in Diddlebury would go with this birth date.

He died age 70 so now Know he was lying throught the census'

1911 he was 59 -gives 50/60 -not clear, so that is not too bad
1901 he was 49 - he gives 45
1891 he was 39 - he gives 35
1887 he was 35 - he gives 28 on his marriage certificate

His wife Ellen was informant on his death so I know I have the right one.

I have also ordered his birth certificate in 1852 and that of his brother Walter who was christened on 4/1/1857 (born 4.11.1856). The records office found this record for me, but sadly, cannot find the others listed. I am sure they must be correct siblings, so I asked the Shropshire history society for help.

They have been most helpful and have found the family on the census' so have been able to trace back.

Thank you again Porkie Pie for all your help.
Regards
Dee