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This is a total longshot - but if Rose had been married before and someone misheard Fred's name:

Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)
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Brown Harriet Eliza Dover 2a 2271
Cuthbert Henry Fleetwood Dover 2a 2271
Hayward Frederick William J Dover 2a 2271
YOUNGS Rose Dover 2a 2271

Hi Evie
I have followed your lead and although it has taken time, thankfully you were right that my Fred in Dover in 1901 & 1911 was born in Freiston Lincolnshire in 1865 and is not the Fred also from Lincolnshire born in 1860/1861.
Unfortunately this means in my view that other people's trees are incorrect.
Thank you again for all your help. It was very much appreciated as was the contributions from the others who offered advice.
Allan

Major night owl. Born at 9 pm, awake all night, slept all day, and my poor mother was never able to break me of it. ;)

I'm still confused here, Andrew. This is the Fred I'm suggesting for yours:

Name: Fred Harrod
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Mary A.
Where born: Lincoln, England

and you say the date's iffy -- but that's the same year of birth as in the 1901!

and it looks like this birth:

Births Dec 1864
Harrod Fred Lincoln 7a 450

and this is the *other* one:

Births Dec 1860
HARROD Frederic William Boston 7a 319

-- and *he* is the one who married Goulding.


Lincoln district has a Sudbrooke. And a Whisby. And West Firsby, and a Saxby. Sometimes one could choke those enumerators. Why couldn't people just have written in block letters like we do now??

Lincolnshire towns and parishes

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/parishes.html

there is a place called Sibsey in Boston reg dist

Hi
I had previously checked the 1911 and Rose's place of birth is Sutton St James which is near Wisbech.
I've also previously googled the Sydds and Lydds. There is a Tydd but it doesn't look like a T.
I will check out the other Fred but the date looks a bit iffy.
Thanks anyway.
Are you a night owl or outside UK?

Also note that your (?) Fred had a stepmother in 1881.

This is the household in 1871:

Henry Harrod 38
Sarah Harrod 15
Elizabeth Harrod 13
George Harrod 9
Fred Harrod 7
John Harrod 4

Okay, I haven't quite made it away yet. ;)

I think you're slightly confused about the Lincolnshire Freds. FredS, that is. Two of 'em in 1881.

The one who may be yours:

Name: Fred Harrod
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Mary A.
Where born: Lincoln, England

And the "other" one:

Name: Fred Harrod
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A.
Where born: Sibsey ((Spilsby)), Lincoln, England


Part of my problem is that I don't know Lincolnshire and I can't tell what the places of birth say for your Fred and Rose in 1901.

Fred's looks like Sipsy or Lipsy. It's hard to tell, because the "L" in Lincolnshire and the "S" in Scotland on the same page are identical, and the first letter of Sipsy or Lipsy doesn't look like either of them. Maybe it's something else altogether.

Rose's looks like Sydd. Or, you know, Lydd. ;) The letter is the same as the "L" in Lincolnshire and the "S" in Scotland.

Having a birth place is such a help for tracking back. Go buy credits for 1911 and see what it says there!

And you're welcome, of course.

Sorry Eviebeavie my manners.
Thank you for your help tonight.
Allan

Hi
yes the 1901 and 1911 one (married to Rose) is definately mine.
Before 1894 I get drawn to the Lincoln one but have had contact with four others of that tree line and they have Fred marrying Mary Goulding and having different children (one of which ironically is a Fred but born I believe 1889) so a different family altogether.
My line just disappears. Maybe they never married.
My GF always joked his line was illegitimate but maybe he wasn't joking.

Which one is the other Fred?

Not that 1881 one -- the other Fred is there alongside him in the census:

Name: Fred Harrod
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A.
Gender: Male
Where born: Sibsey ((Spilsby)), Lincoln, England
Occupation: Ag Lab

Your Fred was a Manager, Mineral Water Factory in 1901, and a moulder, iron works in 1881.

Even those two sound like rather different careers ...

You are sure the 1901 one is yours? ;)


Have you checked the 1911 to see whether it has any useful info?

HOUSEHOLD HARROD ROSE F 1874 37 Dover Kent
HARROD ALFRED M 1902 9 Dover Kent
HARROD DOROTHY F 1894 17 Dover Kent
HARROD FRED M 1896 15 Dover Kent
HARROD FRED M 1907 4 Dover Kent << ??? mistranscribed age?
HARROD ISIBELLA F 1907 4 Dover Kent
HARROD JOHN M 1900 11 Dover Kent


But you'd have to pay to see details.

I think I've gone in as many circles as I can tonight - I'm hungry! Thank you for answering, and I'll check for more tomorrow.

Hi
That is the 'other' Fred who married a Mary Goulding. I have been down that route to my cost.

Nope. The surname is clear at Ancestry.

But ... it's coincidental. It *could* be a mistranscription from the original entry ...


Just to add that Victoria had also provided him in the 1881:

Name: Henry Harrod
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A.
Where born: Freeston, Lincoln, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Smith (B)

Civil Parish: Lincoln
County/Island: Lincolnshire

Street address: 22 Thomas Street

Henry Harrod 49
Mary A. Harrod 48
Henry Harrod 21
George Harrod 18
Fred Harrod 16 (moulder iron works)

Could this be Fred?


Births Sep 1862
HARRIES Fred William Stamford 7a 2_7


I suspect so. The image is very bad at FreeBMD; can't even guess from alphabetical order because all the surnames in the list are obscured. Gonna go have a look at Ancestry ...

I am still here and do appreciate this help.

Just one refinement on your info -- you know your Harrods were in Kent, and presumably together, by early 1894:

Births Mar 1894
Harrod Dorothy Louisa Dover 2a 992

And a great big drat.

1901

Name: Rose Hannah Bell
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Thos
Where born: Broughton, Lincolnshire, England


Who needed another Rose Bowers from Lincolnshire getting married at basically the same time?

In 1901, we have Catherine L Ayre and John W Ayre in Lincolnshire.

So, that Rose Hannah Bowers married John Bell ...

I make it 1473, and there is indeed a missing bride.

Marriages Dec 1891
Ayre John William Glanford B. 7a 1473
Bell John Thomas Glanford B 7a 1473
Dent Catherine Louisa Glanford B. 7a 1473

Aha?

Marriages Dec 1891
Bowers Rose Hannah Glanford B. 7a 147*

Let's see whether we can figure out what page that was / who else was on it.

This is such a bad idea, Allen. *You* know all the efforts and results that were in that previous thread. Nobody else does! So now the likely outcome is that people will just start doing it all over again.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1126627

... Unfortunately, people seem to have engaged in what is, to me, the inexplicable practice of deleting their posts in that thread. So the rest of us couldn't tell what might have been done already anyway.

And then along came ... that one.

Oh well, may as well start afresh. But let's have the info Victoria gave in that thread:


1901
Name: Fred W Harrod
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rose
Where born: Lepsy, Shropshire, England
(I believe Victoria was saying it should say Lincolnshire)

Civil Parish: Dover
Town: Dover
County/Island: Kent
Registration district: Dover

Fred W Harrod 37
Rose Harrod 27
Dorothy L Harrod 7
Fred W Harrod 5
John G Harrod 1