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Evie Beavie - thanks again! at last I feel I am going in the right direction

And sorry -- I don't know zip about prison records! I might doubt that they'd tell you much more in terms of prisoners' families, but I don't know.

Andrew -THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!

Oops, dandelion, you misunderstood.

Sep quarter 1878
John Reuben Ephraim G Llanelly 11a 754

John *is* the surname there.

It's

John, Reuben Ephraim G
district Llanelly
volume 11a
page 754

I actually assumed you had that, since it was so easy to find at FreeBMD. Do the search here:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

for

surname: john
given names: reuben ephraim

and you don't have to put anything else (like date or place) because he will be the only one.

The birth certificate will tell you his parents' names (including his mother's birth surname) and his father's occupation. You order it here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Possible marraiges

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


O'Leary John Neath 11a 675
Williams Ann Neath 11a 675


or

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JONES Ann Pontypridd 11a 753
O'LEARY John Pontypridd 11a 753

Andy

This should be yur family from 1901


1901 Wales Census
about John O Leary
Name: John O Leary
Age in 1901: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Bridgend, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 305
Household Members: Name Age
John O Leary 45
Annie O Leary 38
Annie O Leary 14
Edith O Leary 11
Gladys O Leary 10
John O Leary 8
Evelyn O Leary 6
Kathleen O Leary 11 months

Andy

Evie Beavie -what can I say ? you have given me so much to think about! The record of Reuben - with a surname like John I suppose it could easily get recorded the wrong way around, perhaps that's what has happened with Morgan Lewis? Yes, I can see where you are going with Esther - on her marriage cert is gives her fathers' occupation as labourer which fits with the your last find of Morgan Lewis in prison... aghh! that's scary -do you know if there is anywhere to check prison records? Anyway, thank's so much for giving your time to help - knowing there are people like you who go out of their way to assist novice's like me really helps

Andrew, thanks for taking the tiime to reply - I have just learnt that John O'leary may have had three sisters names; Gladys, Edith and Eveline also a brother (no name is known) anyway, searching the birth records I have found these names in Neath - sadly no marriage yet but will keep on truckin... thanks again for your help , as I said to Gwyn, knowing there are helpful people out there really helps to keep you going

Thanks Gwyn, you are so kind to reply - you know what it's like when your brain get's boggled with dates and names etc; I was practically cross eyed last night! I have searched the 1881 census without results but I'm now ready to battle on and keep looking
Having others give up their time for you really helps to keep you motivated -thanks!

Of course, in 1891 there's:


Name: Morgan Lewis
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Prisoner
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Condition as to marriage: married
Occupation: general labourer

Civil Parish: St John
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
ED, institution, or vessel: H M Prison

;)

Four Esther Jane-s born in the rightish time and place.


Births Mar 1877
BARNES Esther Jane Cardiff 11a 356
- in 1881 census

Births Jun 1879
Julian Esther Jane Cardiff 11a 290
- in 1881 census

Births Dec 1880
CORKE Esther Jane Cardiff 11a 217
- in 1891 census as Hester Corke

Births Jun 1881
HARDING Esther Jane Cardiff 11a 301
- no death 1881-1891, can't find in 1891 census

You might want to consider whether you have a person born to an unmarried woman inventing a father / making a father out of bits and pieces of father-stepfather-grandfather etc. when she married.


Was there an occupation for Morgan Lewis on the marriage cert, or just 'deceased'?

Re: the birth record Gwyn found

Esther may have exaggerated her age when she married, if she was underage.

If born late 1880, married mid 1900, she would have been 19. I can never remember what the minimum age was.

for ref:

Births Sep 1878
John Reuben Ephraim G Llanelly 11a 754

Poosible 1901 census for John O'leary?

1901 Wales Census
about John Oleary
Name: John Oleary
Age in 1901: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish: Dowlais St John
Town: Dowlais
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 53
Household Members: Name Age
John Oleary 27 Labourer in Steel works
Alice Oleary 27 born Ireland
Mary E Oleary 9
John Oleary 8
Henry Oleary 5
Michael Oleary 4
John McCarthy 25
William Allman 27

This could be birth for John jnr.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about John O'Leary
Name: John O'Leary
Year of Registration: 1893
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 707 (click to see others on page)

Ican't see marriage for parents. Maybe took place in Ireland?

Oops. I was looking in England.

Name: Reuben John
Age in 1901: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Esther
Where born: Llanelly, Glamorgan, Wales

Name: Esther John
Age in 1901: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Reuben
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: St Mary
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan


Marriages Sep 1900
Close Gertrude Louise Cardiff 11a 589
Crossling Frederick Ralph Cardiff 11a 589
> John Reuben Ephraim G Cardiff 11a 589
> Lewis Esther Jane Cardiff 11a 589

The nearest I can find....

Births Dec 1880

LEWIS Esther Cardiff 11a 200

Maybe searching for Morgan and his daughter in 1881 would give some clues.

Gwyn

You have them in the 1901 census - but I sure can't find them.

Could you give some directions?

Want to look to see what it says about Reuben's date/place of birth, since you haven't told!

I have my grandparents marriage certificate - Reuben Ephraim Gad John to Esther Jane Lewis and I have found them on 1901 census, however, although I can track Reuben I can't find anything at all on Esther, I can work her birth date from age on certificate(22 in 1900) and I know her father was Morgan Lewis and she was born in Cardiff but I can't find her birth record or anything at all on Morgan Lewis apart from I know he was deceased at time of her marriage. I have spent hours and hours looking through bmd's, census' - can anyone suggest anything - please
also - have the same problem with my paternal grandfather- I have marriage cert John O'leary to Henrietta Coleman 1916 age 24 in Cardiff father John Joseph O'leary, I know he died between 1927 and 1930, but i would like to know where he was born and who is mother was - can you help with fresh ideas... please