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Hi
A few late thoughts in this train - kinda summary...

My certainties:
- Michael Mannion has a wife Ellen in 1861 and they are in Ashton under Lyne, Lancs
- they are both Irish
- census indicates children of Antony, Mary, Bridget, Thomas
- In 1911 (and at no other time) I find Thomas indicates his birth as Roscommon, Ireland (County or town unsure...i lean towards town)

My problems:
- Neither IGI nor Roscommon Heritage site provide clear links for a Michael, Ellen and those children
- I do find close (not complete) links for a Michael with a Bridget Kennedy in IGI for Kilteevan, Roscommon.
- I do find a Michael married to an Ellen (Ellenora Ward) in Roscommon but find no link between those names and the childrens names I'm trying to trace

My leanings:
- That Michael wife Bridget died and shortly thereafter he emigrates with family to Ashton in late 1850's
- For reasons I don't know neither Bridget or Antony are on records I can locate - Mary and Thomas are.
- Michael marries an emigrant in England called Ellen also Irish.

I've typed that out more as cathartic process than anything ! will cut n paste it into FTM and move onto less headache inducing ancestors who didn't move far from Derbyshire for awhile !

I wondered why I was so bothered about this previous hereto unknown GGGrandfather Thomas ? Set aside from where and how and why they came . Fact is Thomas lost 3 daughters to TB and then his son's Anthony, William and Peter all died in WW1 fighting for the country that rioted against them (See Murphy Riots Ashton) and for what ? Leaves me confused between pride, loath of man or simple fear that we never learn. Genealogy a bit depressing at times.

Jon

PS: gotta go out ! just spotted time. thansk so much for time n attention. will check back later.

thanks Helen - that might be my tree - I went for that connection awheilke back. uncertainand unconfirmed as it is.

Kiltreevan came from............igi...

THOMAM MANNION Pedigree
Male

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 18 SEP 1854 Kilteevan, Roscommon, Ireland
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: MICHAELIS MANNION Family
Mother: BRIDGIDAE KENNEDY


The batch no produces lots of others for that couple and is better match than any marrieages to Ellen or widening to other counties inc Mayo.

J

J....Thank you for that....
I had noticed the Brid. Kennedy / Mannion connection but there were other Michael Mannions....also they (Michael and Ellen) may have married in Ellen's Parish (usually marriage was in Brides Parish).....
What "connection" determines Kiltreen as Michaels ?marriage

Marriage
Michael Mannion & Elleonora Ward
Date
example: 12 Apr 1945
Location Roman Catholic, Roscommon And Kilteevan, Roscommon, Ireland
City, County, State, Country
Source citations


Public Member Tree
Unsourced
Michael Mannion
Birth: 1810 - Ireland
Death: Bet 1861 and 1871
Marriage: 28 Feb 1843 - Roscommon, Ireland
Spouse: Elleonora Ward

Found this on an ancestry tree

Helen

Erin - many thanks and sorry I nipped offline for a bit.

Thats useful to know about Roscommon and borders.

Thomas's sister Mary marries Antony McDermott on 5 Jun 1859 at St Michaels Ashton Under Lyne. Hence the close connections in various census between the two. The very clear blank is 1851 with them all present in 1861.

In Kiltreen, Roscommon (IGI sources) I can find some of the names...associated with father Michael but not with an Ellen...with a Brigidea Kennedy instead. Poss Brigid died and he married an Ellen before or very shortly after emigrating to Ashton.

ponder ponder.

J

Yes that site is expensive and you cant go back to the info either after a set period..rip off but its the only site Ive found that works..I bet there are lots more somewhere

When youre next over to the emmerald Is have a look for the Flanagans and Hartins in county Cavan lol

x

J. A couple of things to be very wary of...the Co.Roscommon and the Counties Mayo and others all border one and other the Baronies and Civil parishes also ...The Manions are found in both the Co.Mayo and Roscommon in the areas where this occurs.....
I dont have the Census for earlier than 1881 (UK) so cant figure out the McDermott/Mannion connection (1861) can you enlighten me and I can maybe cross check in Co.Roscommon.
If you check the 1881 Census Ashton there are other Mannions listed....

Thats the one ! 5 Euro per hit (£4.27 to us Brits) which if your shooting in the semi-shade is a little painful in wallet dept.

I always thought I was a northen lad with some Scottish roots. Investigation reveals Irish Mannions, McCabes, Regans and Kennedys. Alas its only Mannions where I get a vague inkling of where in Ireland and 'Roscommon' is still a big inkling.

Though. Curious fact. I have only every been to Eire once. 10 yrs ago as part of a trip related to work and visit to a County Council. All well before I investigated roots. Of course it was Roscommon and that the place I stayed in too.

I was being drawn back - to be sure!
J

Have you tried this site?

https://brsgenealogy.com/ifhf/index.php

Maybe we should just head for Ireland together!!

x

I know exactly what you mean trying to find the Irish, my dad was Irish and I have just about given up on County Cavan

And sttrange you should say, but my materanl side are all in New York, thats easy... ish, until you want to buy a certificate and they want to know what colour pants you're wearning before they'll part with one!

Good luck

Ginny

x

Another direct hit. Wow I wish I'd known about you folks when I was searching for all these first time round. You've found those in fraction of time it took me ! Any chances of heading back to my query about finding them in Roscommon??. Cheers J

1881....Living with Brother in law

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Thomas MC CABE Head M Male 29 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Railway Labourer
Bridget MC CABE Wife M Female 30 Ireland C Jack Frame Tenter
Ellen MC CABE Daur Female 2 Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England
Thomas MANION Brother In Law M Male 27 Ireland Grinder Cotton Mill
Margaret MANION Sister M Female 26 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Housekeeper
John MANION Nephew Male 3 Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England
Mary MANION Niece Female 1 Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England
Margaret MANION Niece Female 8 m Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 74 Fleet St
Census Place Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341964
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4036 / 39

Spot on for each of em Ginny. I have tracked them this side of pond but its heading back to Roscommon where I'm finding it very difficult to pin down :

A Michael marrying an Ellen with children Antony, Bridget, Mary and Thomas with years.

I've tried n failed many times at great expense £4.50 a shot (11 shots!) search on Roscommon heritage site. Be easier if they'd gone to NY!

J

Not sure if had this...what the heck!!
1901 England Census
about Thomas Mannion
Name: Thomas Mannion
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: Ashton under Lyme Holy Trinity
Town: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ashton-under-Lyne
Sub-registration district: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 77
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Mannion 48
Margaret Mannion 47
May Mannion 22
Margaret Mannion 21
Ellen Mannion 19
Bridget Mannion 18
Anthony Mannion 14
Catherine Mannion 13
Peter Mannion 11
William Mannion 8
Thomas Mannion 2


x

With his sister and her family
1871 England Census
about Thomas Mannion
Name: Thomas Mannion
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Brother-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 97
Household Members: Name Age
Anthony McDermott 32
Mary McDermott 26
Mary McDermott 7
Ellen McDermott 5
John T McDermott 3
Anthony McDermott 6 months
Ellen Mannion 58
Bridget Mannion 23
Thomas Mannion 19


x

Looks like this could be them?

1861 England Census
about Thomas McDernott
Name: Thomas McDernott
[Thomas McDermott]
[Thomas Manion]
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Michael
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 143
Household Members: Name Age
Michael Manion 52
Ellen Manion 51
Antony Manion 26
Bridgett Manion 16
Mary McDernott 18
Anthony McDernott 23
Thomas McDernott 9


x

Hello
My Thomas was born around 1853 - 1856. (Former based upon marriage certificate - latter from 1911 England census). He married a Margaret McCabe and had 12 children - 4 dead by 1911. He settled in Ashton Under Lyne Lancashire.

I know he had at least 2 sister (Mary and Bridget) and that his father was Michael Manion (less 1 'n' in the marriage certificate) who came across to Ashton sometime just before 1851.

Thomas indicates he's from Roscommon, Ireland in 1911. I don't know if thats the town or the county. I have previous little else to go off. I have tried many sources but am struggling to know where ~Thomas / Michael came from in Roscommon.

Can anyone help?