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My mother is Emily. Dad used to call her Emm. So Emma is a good possibility

Hi Elouise

Sorry for not getting back to you particularly as (once again!) you have turned up some wonderful information.

You were spot on with the marriage of Emily Churchill to Mr Wood. I still havent found her on the 1911 census yet although interestingly found an Emma Churchill, of the same age living in the Portsmouth area with a 'cousin'. Whilst I dont want to jump to any conclusion, I guess it is possibly her. Emma / Emily - I guess they sound alike!

I got the birth Cert for William Churchill Junior who was 7 months in the 1911 census. Indeed Florence McGivering was the Mother. Unmarried. Shocking!

William Senior was certainly a colourful character as he remarried after his first wife died in 1902, then took up with this florence around 1910....And from what you have foudn the poor woman died a year later!

The information you gave me on Frederick is particularly interesting. I have never had to look at any military stuff before. I think I mentioned previously that someone in the family said someone died in WWI.

Those regiment numbers that you gave me, would they have stayed with him throughout his time in the military do you know?

I had a look at some death lists for Frederick Churchill and there are two that died in WWI. Both have different numbers though.

I think I shall have a poke about with that and also focus some more on William Churchill Senior to find out whether/when/who he married after his first wife died in 1902...

Thank you so much for your help.

J

hi - me again....

elouise's william churchill in portsmouth was definitely the right one. During passing an elderly relative mentioned that the family did move from london to portsmouth for a while.

am waiting for the birth certificate of william junior...

meantime I have gone back through the census and still cant find

frederick (1888)
george (1896)
emily (1900)

i have looked at various 'could be's' but nothing close.

aaagggghhhh

sorry i didnt get on yesterday to come back to you.

thank you once again.

i think Elouise's William E Churchill (b1910) looks like a good bet. Hopefully the certificate will show the wife/mother too. I had a quick look at my records to double check. William senior was defintely a boot/shoemaker so this definitely looks good. I have a note from a family member that one of the Churchill siblings died in WWI so that would explain his absence quite possibly. Im still curious about Emily Churchill though the youngest sibling from the marriage of William and Rosetta.

Am going to visit some of the addresses in London later that still exist!!

I think you are probably right! Opens up a whole new line of enquiry. Shall send off for this certificate I think!

Certainly seems a little suspect particularly as the census states William Churchill has 8 children with one deceased, all of whom I knew about.

Many thanks for your help once again,

J

Another possible

Marriages Sep 1903 (>99%)
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Churchill William John Portsmouth 2b 1027

A possible remarriage?


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Marriages Dec 1903 (>99%)
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Churchill William Holborn 1b 1238
JACOBS Annie Holborn 1b 1238
Lord Frances Holborn 1b 1238

No doubt this is your little william churchill,but not reg as such as I dont expect he was married to the "housekeeper"
Housekeeper ,was a title often used more often than not for "a live in lover" I have found.
And if he did remarry after Rosettas death they didnt seem to have children,so maybe it didnt last long!
Or maybe he just said that so he didnt have to marry miss mcgivering.

Births Dec 1910 (>99%)
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MCGIVERING William E Portsmouth 2b 438

viv

Hi Elouise

I do have those - many thanks.

Also had a look at the census image that you sent me of the Churchill's in Portsmouth. Im sure that is them as all the pieces fit.

I couldnt however find a birth record for William Chuchill who it says was William's (senior) son, aged 7 months and born in Portsmouth. Any advice?

William must have remarried after Rosetta's death in 1901 too as the census states that he was married for 7 years. No wife on the census though and I couldnt on a quick look find any further marriage details for him circa 1904.

Other residents are Florence McGivering and her son, Jack. Florence's status is also said to be single...... (surely not an unmarried mother??!!!) and she is said to be housekeeper.

Many thanks for your help - really is appreciated

J

you people are fantastic!!

Polly - yes that was definitely them in the 1901 census. Rosetta (the mother) died shortly after and I think it therefore entirely possible they would move away.

Elouise's thread seems definitely to be them too. Thank you. I am going to have a look at the entry later this evening (currently at work!). My only doubt of course is the absence of Emily and George. Also Daisy was definitely born in July 1898 so would have only been 12, rather than 14. However I guess those inaccuracies are usual.

Vivienne - I am going to apply for Charles and George's certificates as I have always wondered whether they are twins or not and I guess thats the only way of finding out! The other Churchills you found are related somewhere I think.

Freewheel - that was a very good shot and also on the right tracks because Annie Thomas did in fact marry Frederick Churchill in 1910.

The only thing that still bugs me is where Emily was. She was definitely alive and obviously only about 11. Similarly George (one of the twins?) isnt present and I think that he may have been in service. Family stories suggest that one of those siblings died in WWI so maybe that was him.

I am really, really grateful to you all for your help.

J

So just one lot of twins then...
Looks as though Elouise has given James a nice prezzie anyway as that would seem to be them in her post.
But unless he comes back to his thread we wont know.

Guessing somewhat with this record

Marriages Dec 1910 (>99%)
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Ackermen Alice Holborn 1b 1183
Churchill Frederick T Holborn 1b 1183
Jones Albert H Holborn 1b 1183
Thomas Annie Holborn 1b 1183

Vivienne

I think Frederick's birth was actually 1888 - according to 1901 posted by Polly

The wife's death

Deaths Sep 1901 (>99%)
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Churchill Rosetta Ann 36 St. Giles 1b 357

Dont think thats them,,but do we have two sets of twins going on the dates??
Two kids in 1896 and two more in 1898.

this lot??

HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL DAISY ELLEN F 1897 14 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL BLUEBELL F 1902 9 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL CHARLOTTE MARY F 1864 47 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL LILIE F 1900 11 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL MAY F 1903 8 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL ROSIE F 1900 11 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL WILLIAM M 1860 51 Hackney London
HOUSEHOLD CHURCHILL WILLIAM JOHN M 1884 27 Hackney London

hi this looks like the family in 1901
1901 census

Address 8 Ormond Buildings
Civil Parish St Andrew Holborn Above The Bars With St George The Martyr
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet
Ecclesiastical Parish St George The Martyr
Parliamentary Borough or Division Holborn Division Borough Of Finsbury
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Borough Of Holborn
Administrative County London
Householder 1
Name Charles Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 5
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Soho
Language
Infirmity
Householder 2
Name Charlotte Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 9
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Marylebone
Language
Infirmity
Householder 3
Name Daisy Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 2
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London St Giles
Language
Infirmity
Householder 4
Name Emily Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 1
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London St Giles
Language
Infirmity
Householder 5
Name Fredrick T Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 13
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London St Anns
Language
Infirmity
Householder 6
Name George Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 5
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Soho
Language
Infirmity
Householder 7
Name Rosetta A Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 36
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London St Anns
Language
Infirmity
Householder 8
Name William Churchill
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 41
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Shoe Maker
Employment Status
Where Born London Marylebone
Language
Infirmity

Does the census form say whether any of the family's children have died?

Where were they born?

i have just started looking at the 1911 census.

in it there should appear 5 siblings for the family name Churchill -
Frederick (1898) Charlotte (1892) Charles (1896) George (1896) Daisy (1898) and Emily (1900)

the father is William Churchill
the mother is deceased
the family has always been in or around central London

i would have expected to find daisy and emily together as they are obviously only 12/13 respectively

is it me or is anyone else having any difficulties??

any help / pointers etc would be great!!

thanks