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If John Martin was in the 1881 census aged 74 and in the 1891 census aged 83 then he was bn around 1808-07 is this correct.
This death should be close.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about John Martin
Name: John Martin
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1894
Age at Death: 87
Registration district: Tavistock
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume: 5b
Page: 224

hello again...long time no see..... Could you have a look at when John martin dob 1811? Lamerton Devon possibly died? i know you have him alive in 1891 aged 83? is this the correct john martin as i have 2 that both seem to be married to a rachel.... :-)

Wow you have been busy ...thank you very much i can digest this and add where appropriate. Where were thomas and harriett married is that info available? the same for John and Rachel Martin?
Also deaths...a grim subject but also worth knowing!

These are the two Thomas's on 1901:

1901 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriott
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Buckland Monachorum
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Buckland
County/Island: Devon
Country: England


Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Tavistock
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 51
Harriott Martin 42
Flora Martin 13
Maud Martin 12
Lily Martin 9
Gilbert Martin 7
Mable Martin 4
Beatrice Martin 2




Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2117; Folio: 61; Page: 8.

Source Information:

///////////////

The other one!!

1901 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunterton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Sydenham Damerel
Ecclesiastical parish: Sydenham Damerel St Mary
Town: Townlake
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 57
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 51
Elizabeth Martin 49
Ann Martin 16
Jane Martin 10
William Martin 8



Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2119; Folio: 86; Page: 8.

Dea x

Sorry - the last message was too big and it missed this off the end..................

1861 England Census
about Hariett Thomas
Name: Hariett Thomas
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Ilsington, Devon, England

Civil parish: Ashburton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Newton Abbot
Sub-registration district: Ashburton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 90
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Thomas 33 Carpenter
Maria Thomas 33
John Thomas 10
Edwin Thomas 9
Hariett Thomas 2

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1405; Folio: 20; Page: 20; GSU roll: 542807.

POSSIBLE marriage for her parents:

Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GRIGG William St Austell 9 21
JINKINS Mary Ann St Austel 9 21
>>>>>>>>>>Knight Maria St Austel 9 21
Parkin Thomas St Austell 9 21
Phillips Betsy S Austell 9 21
PHILLIPS Mary S Austell 9 21
>>>>>>>>>THOMAS Joseph St Austell 9 21
TRUSCOTT John St Austell 9 21
.....................

Her mother on 1841??:

1841 England Census ???????????
about Maria Knight
Name: Maria Knight
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Female
Where born: Cornwall, England

Civil parish: Stoke Climsland
Hundred: East (North Division)
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England


Registration district: Launceston
Sub-registration district: Northill
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Knight 40 Ag labr
Mary Knight 40
Maria Knight 13
Thomas Knight 10
Susanna Knight 8
Richard Knight 6
Mary Knight 3
Grace Knight 3
Elizth Knight 3 Mo

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 134; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Stoke Climsland; County: Cornwall; Enumeration District: 5; Folio: 64; Page: 7; Line: 6; GSU roll: 241258.

Take time to 'digest' and let me know what you think.

Dea x

1841: - before Thomas's birth:

Name: John Martin
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Devon, England
Civil parish: Lamerton
Hundred: Lifton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 30

John Martin abt 1811 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Racheal Martin abt 1816 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Mary Martin abt 1834 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Jans Martin abt 1836 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Racheal Martin abt 1838 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

James Martin abt 1840 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

..............
1851 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Lamerton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 44
Rachel Martin 39
Rachel Martin 12
James Martin 10
John Martin 7
William Martin 4
Thomas Martin 1

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1884; Folio: 76; Page: 11; GSU roll: 221033.


...........................................

**Missing on 1861***

..............................................


1871 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England
Civil parish: Lamerton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 64
Rachel Martin 60
Thomas Martin 21
Eliz A Martin 16

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2148; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 832037.

.............................................

Thomas b Lamerton c 1850 married to Harriet:

1881 England Census
about Harriet Martin
Name: Harriet Martin
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashburton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Mary Tavy
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: North Blackdown
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 31 Farmer of 10 acres.......... born Lamerton
Harriet Martin 22
Anna M. Martin 2
Margaret Martin 1

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2220; Folio: 56; Page: 10; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341535.

1891 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Brentor
Ecclesiastical parish: Brentor
Town: Ford Mill
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 41
Harriet Martin 31
Hannah Martin 12
Margaret Martin 11
Charles Martin 9
Henry Martin 8
Emily Martin 7
Flora Martin 3
Maud Martin 3


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1751; Folio 10; Page 14; GSU roll: 6096861.
.........................................................

You have them on 1901 !!!!!!!!!!



...................................

Thomas's parents - still alive in 1881:

1881 England Census
about John Martin
Name: John Martin
Age: 74
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Father in Law
Spouse's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Milton Abbott, Devon, England

Civil parish: St Peter Tavy
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: Stannon
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Farmer (Partner With Head)

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Tavistock
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Squire 59 Farmer of 13 acres
Mary Squire 47
John Martin 74
Rachel Martin 69


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2219; Folio: 30; Page: 11; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341535.
..................................
Thomas's parents still alive in 1891:

1891 England Census
about Rachel Martin
Name: Rachel Martin
Age: 79
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Milton Abbot, Devon, England

Civil parish: Brentor
Ecclesiastical parish: Brentor
Town: Liddaton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 83 .........living on own means
Rachel Martin 79

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1751; Folio 11; Page 15; GSU roll: 6096861.

Dea x


/////////////////

This, I think, is the marriage for Thomas + Harriet BUT it will need to be confirmed by cert:

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%) ?????????????????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LANGMAN Joseph Thomas Tavistock 5b 641
>>>>>Martin Thomas Tavistock 5b 641
Mathews Mary Ann Tavistock 5b 641
>>>>>>>>THOMAS Harriet Tavistock 5b 641

IF this is the correct marriage, I think this is her family:

1871 England Census
about Harriet A Thomas
Name: Harriet A Thomas
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Johnston ............ Ilsington ????
Civil parish: Marytavy
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 73
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Thomas 45 Carpenter
Maria Thomas 46
John Thomas 20
Edwin Thomas 19
Harriet A Thomas 12 *********
William Thomas 7



Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2148; Folio: 64; Page: 17; GSU roll: 832037.

1861 England Census
about Hariett Thomas
Name: Hariett Thomas
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Maria

1841: - before Thomas's birth:

Name: John Martin
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Devon, England
Civil parish: Lamerton
Hundred: Lifton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 30



John Martin abt 1811 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Racheal Martin abt 1816 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Mary Martin abt 1834 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Jans Martin abt 1836 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

Racheal Martin abt 1838 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

James Martin abt 1840 Devon, England Lamerton, Devon

..............
1851 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Lamerton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 44
Rachel Martin 39
Rachel Martin 12
James Martin 10
John Martin 7
William Martin 4
Thomas Martin 1

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1884; Folio: 76; Page: 11; GSU roll: 221033.


...........................................

**Missing on 1861***

..............................................


1871 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England
Civil parish: Lamerton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 64
Rachel Martin 60
Thomas Martin 21
Eliz A Martin 16

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2148; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 832037.

.............................................

Thomas b Lamerton c 1850 married to Harriet:

1881 England Census
about Harriet Martin
Name: Harriet Martin
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashburton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Mary Tavy
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: North Blackdown
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 31 Farmer of 10 acres.......... born Lamerton
Harriet Martin 22
Anna M. Martin 2
Margaret Martin 1

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2220; Folio: 56; Page: 10; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341535.

1891 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Brentor
Ecclesiastical parish: Brentor
Town: Ford Mill
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 41
Harriet Martin 31
Hannah Martin 12
Margaret Martin 11
Charles Martin 9
Henry Martin 8
Emily Martin 7
Flora Martin 3
Maud Martin 3


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1751; Folio 10; Page 14; GSU roll: 6096861.
.........................................................

You have them on 1901 !!!!!!!!!!



...................................

Thomas's parents - still alive in 1881:

1881 England Census
about John Martin
Name: John Martin
Age: 74
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Father in Law
Spouse's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Milton Abbott, Devon, England

Civil parish: St Peter Tavy
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: Stannon
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Farmer (Partner With Head)

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Tavistock
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Squire 59 Farmer of 13 acres
Mary Squire 47
John Martin 74
Rachel Martin 69


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2219; Folio: 30; Page: 11; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341535.
..................................
Thomas's parents still alive in 1891:

1891 England Census
about Rachel Martin
Name: Rachel Martin
Age: 79
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Milton Abbot, Devon, England

Civil parish: Brentor
Ecclesiastical parish: Brentor
Town: Liddaton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 83 .........living on own means
Rachel Martin 79

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1751; Folio 11; Page 15; GSU roll: 6096861.

Dea x

1851 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunterton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Dunterton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England



Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
William Martin 50
Jane Martin 40
James Martin 6
Thomas Martin 3
Samuel Martin 2w
William Bolt 65 father-in-law


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1884; Folio: 198; Page: 10; GSU roll: 221033.
///////////////

Missing in 1861 !!!!!!!!

///////////////////////////////////


1871 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Brother
Father's Name: William
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunterton, Devon, England
Civil parish: Lezant
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Launceston
Sub-registration district: North Hill
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
James Martin 26
Jane Martin 32
Richard T Martin 4
Eliza J Martin 2
Bessie Martin 2 months
William Martin 71 father - widow
Thomas Martin 23 brother - unmarried.

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2227; Folio: 63; Page: 11; GSU roll: 834871.

1881 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunterton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Kelly
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: Kellys Lodge
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Gardeners Labourer

Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Lifton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 33
Elizabeth Martin 29

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2221; Folio: 28; Page: 10; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341535.

1891 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunterton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Kelly
Ecclesiastical parish: Kelly
Town: Meadwell
County/Island: Devon
Country: England


Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Lifton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Martin 43
Elizabeth Martin 40
Mary G Martin 8
Annie G Martin 6
Jane G Martin 10/12

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1752; Folio 27; Page 8; GSU roll: 6096862.

..............................

Marriage???

Marriages Jun 1877
GLIDDON Elizabeth Launceston 5c 33
Martin Thomas Launceston 5c 33
..............................

Children:

Births Mar 1883
MARTIN Mary Gliddon Tavistock 5b 407


Births Dec 1884
Martin Ann Gliddon Tavistock 5b 372

.........................................................................
>>>>Births Mar 1887
MARTIN Alice Gliddo_ Tavistock 5b 365

>>>>Deaths Jun 1888
MARTIN Alice Giddon 1 Tavistock 5b 251
.........................................................................


Births Sep 1890
Martin Jane Gliddon Tavistock 5b 375

This is the one you have been following prior to the marriage!! - I don't think they are 'yours'

Dea x

Hi Vicky,

Firstly, PLEASE do not take my word as 'gospel' and delete all your relatives!!

All this will need to be confirmed by certs etc.

However, I DO believe that I have checked it as thoroughly as possible and I therefore believe it to be correct!

I have not checked your 'recent' relatives but you say you have a photo with all there names and dates on so they would seem very likely to be correct.

Where I think you have gone wrong is with Thomas Martins parents as William + Jane!

I believe them to be John + Rachel.

I will post both sets of details for you to follow through!

Dea x

Might have gone off before you come back on but I have all the details and will post when you are ready.

Dea x

You have confirmed that 'your' Thomas was born c 1850 in Lamerton.

Therefore his parents were John + Rachel.

Dea x

This is what I put on your previous thread - to use as a starting point for you to work back from:

"There is something very wrong here - you appear to be following two DIFFERENT Thomas's.

I have followed them both through the census's and they are NOT the same one.

You are correct in that the Thomas born c 1848 in Dunterton was the son of William + Jane (nee Bolt)

This is 'him' still unmarried in 1871 - living with brother James + family (also father William, now a widow)

1871 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Brother
Father's Name: William
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunterton, Devon, England
Civil parish: Lezant
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Launceston
Sub-registration district: North Hill
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
James Martin 26
Jane Martin 32
Richard T Martin 4
Eliza J Martin 2
Bessie Martin 2 months
William Martin 71 father - widow
Thomas Martin 23 brother - unmarried.

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2227; Folio: 63; Page: 11; GSU roll: 834871.

//////////////////////////////////////

HOWEVER, the one you have in 1901 born in Lamerton also appears on 1871, unmarried and the
son of John + Rachel

1871 England Census
about Thomas Martin
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Rachel
Gender: Male
Where born: Lamerton, Devon, England
Civil parish: Lamerton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Milton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
John Martin 64
Rachel Martin 60
Thomas Martin 21
Eliz A Martin 16

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2148; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 832037.


SO..... which one of them do you 'know' to be your's ???

Dea x

Hi Vicky,

I have had a little look at your tree and, I hope you don't mind me saying this but I truly believe you have the wrong parents for Thomas.

I have all the census info which looks to prove that you have switched to another Thomas before his marriage to Harriet.

I believe Thomas married Harriet Thomas in 1877:

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%) ?????????????????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LANGMAN Joseph Thomas Tavistock 5b 641
Martin Thomas Tavistock 5b 641
Mathews Mary Ann Tavistock 5b 641
THOMAS Harriet Tavistock 5b 641

Her parents were Joseph Thomas + Maria (Knight)

I have all the census + Bmd info.His parents were John + Rachel Martin. - NOT William + Jane!

Dea x

I will put my notes to one side - Bump this thread up again tomorrow and I will give you the details.

Dea x

O.K............... 'Kill' the daughter !! - I am back on the case!

Have to go off for an hour or so but will return less 'frazzled'

Dea x

I have been working on this all day and the thread has just been deleted - WHY ????????????

Dea x