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Hello Jansmith, just seen your reply, the census for Charles Barnes is correct. On his second marriage certificate he is down as a batchelor. Thanks for your help. Janet

Looks like there is a mistake with this Charles Barnes Index
Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%) Aperson is missing could it be Emma???
Barnes Charles Islington 1b 421 ***
LANGFORD Annie Laurie Islington 1b 421
LETTS Emily Charlotte Islington 1b 421
NEWMAN Alexander Thomas Islington 1b 421
SMITH James Islington 1b 421


Looked at image it is page 424 not 421
but don't know who too!

1871 so its sometime between 1871 -1881. I see mother married Henry Webb by 1881 census Their marriage
Marriages Dec 1875
BARNES Ann Elizabeth Islington 1b 653 *******
FULLBROOK John Thomas Islington 1b 653
GOODING Mary Ann Islington 1b 653
WEBB Henry Islington 1b 653****


Name: Charles Barnes
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: St Clement Danes, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Leonard Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Holywell

old Members:
Name Age
Ann Barnes 49
Charles Barnes 18
Caroline Barnes 16
Henry Webb 40

does it say he was a widower on 2nd marriage cert?

Sorry but I have tried all Charles Barnes marriages in the appropriate time span and cant find one marrying an Emma at all

Hello Gillian, I found the name on Johns birth certificate it read Emma Barnes formerly Garrett/Garratt. Sorry your right 1848.

Dont quite follow the maths here -if she was 29 when she died in 1877 does that not make her year of birth 1848 -not 1835?

Did you find the maiden name Garratt/Garrett from the birth cert of her son John?
Might she have been a widow on marriage ? She would have married Charles inder her married name bur her maiden name would be on the birth cert for her son

Thanks Annie

Thanks for you help, most appreciated Dee

Hi Janet,

they didn't have ID back then so you could be called anything you liked.....


Dee x

I am now thinking that is right, that they were not married, but can someone be buried under a false name?

Just thought if that is her death she was a few years younger than Charles he was born in 1852 and that makes her born 1835

Hi Janet,

looks like a strong possibilty that Emma just took Charles' surname. She was a few years older than Charles, I wonder if she had married previously and that stopped them getting married?

Dee x

Hello Denise, I think that could be right, I did find that. So if they were not married perhaps she just took his name?

Unless they were not married, but on the birth certificate of John Emmers is down as Emma Barnes formerly Garrett

So this could be Emmas' death?

Deaths Dec 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BARNES Emma 29 Poplar 1c 462



Dee x

Details are:

Henry Webb Head M Male 50 Marlboro, Wiltshire, England Wood Carver
Anne Webb Wife M Female 59 Tenterden, Kent Wood Carver Wife
Chas. Barnes Lodger W male 28 Holborn, Middlesex Cabinet Maker
John Barnes Son U Male 3 Bow Middlesex

Dwelling: 22 Parnell Road
London, Middlesex, England

I know this to be correct as the address is the same address that is on Charles second marriage certificate.

Hi Janet,

can't see a marriage, could you give us the 1881 census details?

Dee x

Please could someone look for a marriage for me, I have tried looking with no success. The names are Emma Garratt and Charles Albert Barnes, not quite sure which year, they did have a son in May 1877. I also believe that she died before 1881. They came from the Bow, Poplar area. I know that Charles married again in 1883. Thank you