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Thankyou for all your efforts.. its given me a lot to be going on with, very much appreciated. Another birth cert will be following DOROTHY CHANDLER!

I only found out recently that my other Grandmother was born illegitimate, so this just takes the biscuit! Are you going to tell my Dad or am i?????

Just read what you have said re. the "housekeeper" and the daughter Alice - so that was him 1891 it seems! Not the marrying type I suspect.
Jan

Sorry Christine, what i meant by "married or not" was the fact that i cant find their marriage. I have their daughter's (Ellen Alice, sometimes know as Alice) birth cerficate which obviously reveals her parent's names.

Charles well might have been single anyway - or thought it better that way! In any case he has children there including Alfred. I seem to remember Susannah has a child with her too, forgot to include him/her I see. .

I must say I am struggling with Mary Saunders. I take it you have a birth cert for someone which is how you have her name? I would be tempted to treat myself to the cert for young Charles, if he is their son then this is definitely Charles sr. in 1891.

Jan

Thanks so much for the 1911 census Christine, i have no other information on either of them.

Susan, what FACTS do you have, as opposed to going just on census returns? I notice you say in your original post "Mary Saunders married (or not!) Charles Masters" - do you have a marriage certificate? If not, how do you know she was Saunders?

Perhaps if you post here everything you know about this family FOR DEFINITE it might help us come up with other suggestions/possibilities.

Im really so sure that the 1891 census is my Charles, having said that, in the 1901 census is has Susan Berry, Housekeeper.

Just out of interest, and in case you don't have it, here is their son and his family on the 1911 census:

GANDY, Henry George Head Married
36 years M 58 1853 Wholesale Fish Merchant Southampton VIEW
GANDY, Mary Jane Wife Married
36 years F 56 1855 Boldre Lymington VIEW
GANDY, Florence Emily Daughter Single F 34 1877 Dressmaker Southampton VIEW
MASTERS, Alfred Son In Law Married
7 years M 30 1881 Fish Salesman Southampton VIEW
MASTERS, Elizabeth Jane Daughter Married
7 years F 30 1881 Southampton VIEW
MASTERS, Alfred Charles Grandson M 7 1904 Southampton VIEW
MASTERS, Henry William Grandson M 3 1908 Southampton VIEW
MASTERS, Mabel Rosemary Granddaughter F 1 1910 Southampton VIEW
HUMBY, Thomas William Assistant Single M 52 1859 Fish Salesman Southampton VIEW

It's (almost) definitely him because on the original it gives his full name, not just "Alfred".

Well, Brummiejan, what a little monkey, eh? Wonder what his mistress' husband thought of it - she also seems unconcerned about telling the enumerator that she is married. Gosh, it's all very Thomas Hardy!!

Its funny that you mentioned the "Mistress" i got all confused with that one too!

Christine, I think it may well be him.

Charles' birth would confirm:

Births Jun 1883
MASTERS Charles Southampton 2c 11

Jan

Now, here's honesty for you!

1891 England Census

Name: Susannah Barry
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Mistress
Gender: Female
Where born: Eling, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: All Saints
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Southampton
County/Island: Hampshire

Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton

Charles Masters 30
Susannah Barry 26
Alfred Masters 10
Charles Masters 8
Alice E Masters 4

Am I not right in thinking that in the 1891 census Charles describes himself as "single" and is living with his "mistress" (never seen anyone actually own up to that on the census before!!)? Have I got the right Charles? he is with Alfred, the same son as on the 1881.
EDIT Whoops - sorry - wrong birthdate for Charles when I checked back. Phew. He is forgiven!!

Their son's birth:

Births Jun 1881 (>99%)
MASTERS Alfred William Southampton 2c 4

Jan

Is this them?

1881 England Census

Name: Charles Masters
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Shirley, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Southampton St Mary
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Anglesea Terrace
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Laborer For Corporation

Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Masters 26
Mary Masters 22
Alfred William Masters
Clemence Williams 13
Mabel Williams 11
Bertram Williams 5

Jan

1881 just for info

Name: Mary Masters
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Christchurch, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Southampton St Mary
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Anglesea Terrace
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Masters 26
Mary Masters 22
Alfred William Masters
Clemence Williams 13
Mabel Williams 11
Bertram Williams 5

The Williams are on the next household schedule

How do you know this is the right Mary?

Susan, can't even see them 1881! Any children around?
Jan

I so hope you dont think this is a cop out and i am asking you to do all the work for me, but for some reason, apart from an 1881 census, i cant find any other details regarding my Grt Grandmother Mary Saunders 1859, Christchurch, Dorset, England. She married (or not!) Charles Masters,DOB 1853, Shirley, Southampton, Hants. Their first child was born 1881 ( a clue perhaps as to when the marriage took place) their last child was born 1893. She does not appear in the 1901 census although it does not say that Charles is a widower, but it does in the 1911 Census. So i am assuming she died between 1893 (the birth of her last child) and 1911. Any information would be very much appreciated. Thankyou...Sue