Find Ancestors

I must apologize that I have not replied before now to those who were trying to assist me but I have not been able to spend any time on my tree/ancestors for some considerable time for reasons I will not go into, though one is very pleasant in that our youngest daughter gave birth to our first grandchild on 2/12/11 and we have spent several months since in California doting over her (yes, a girl - Olivia). We also had many distressing weeks as she contacted whooping cough but has recovered well though seeing her turn blue fighting for breath was not pleasant. So, back to our tree and I thank all for your GOOD ADVICE as it lead to me obtaining the relevant certificates and proving it was Elizabeth Hampshire who married OUR Joseph and those who provided the family coming from them were spot on. Now, back on the trail/search, I am trying to find Joseph's father so any kick start would help and I imagine obtaining Joseph's birth cert is my start point.

Thanks again all
Paul Brooke

aha, good 'ol ancestry!! Regards Linda :)

Hello Linda, lovely Christmas, thank you.

Yes, Jane Morgantroy shouldn't be there. I think she belongs to this bloke who is on his own.

GRAINGER Richard Easingwold 9d 503

Ozi

Sorry guys been away for xmas, (which I hope we all enjoyed?) as you can see from the following, ancestry has 3 names for the marriage in 1853 so a male name is missing, and purhcasing the cert just using elizabeths name may help, (although reading thru the thread I'm a little confused!)

View Record
Elizabeth Hampshire 1853 York Yorkshire - East Riding, Yorkshire - North Riding, North Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
View Record
Jane Morgantroy 1853 Easingwold Durham, Yorkshire - North Riding
View Record
Robert Nash 1853 York Yorkshire - East Riding, Yorkshire - North Riding, North Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding

Regards Linda :)
and reading back thru this particular record, am even more so, why is jane included?

ozi

Yes you are correct in your assumption re. not sure its my Joshua and yes again re. marriage certificate. I will send for same after Christmas

Paul, am I right in assuming you're not sure the birth cert you have with Elizabeth Hampshire as mother is your Joshua?

Also, am I right that you haven't got Joshua's marriage cert? If you haven't then that is a necessity to, hopefully, check his father's name and his father's occupation.

Otherwise you're always going to be wondering if you have the right bloke.

Ozi

Linda, you say there is a name missing in Elizabeth's marriage index.

FreeBMD only has two names:

Marriages Mar 1853
HAMPSHIRE Elizabeth York 9d 5
Nash Robert York 9d 5

and there is this census which seems to fit,
1861 England Census
Name: Robert Nash
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Terrington, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sandhutton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Flaxton
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Nash 35
Elizabeth Nash 32
Sarah Ann Nash 7
Ellen Nash 4
William Nash 1

So I think this marriage can be eliminated. It doesn't mean that Joseph didn't marry an Elizabeth Hampshire though.

You do realize Joseph's first wife may have died and he married Elizabeth Hampshire in 1853.

Ozi

Sorry, in my second line of reply I said Joshua had a wife named Elizabeth. I should of course said Joseph had a wife named Elizabeth.

bruceabt1959

OK I take your point. I found via a census that Joshua was the son of of Joseph and then via another census that Joshua was married (or had a partner) named Elizabeth. However, during the time I tried to find Joshuas birth year etc. I came upon two Joshuas born within approx 1 year of each other. Having previously discovered that records I had looked up, including the census data, were prone to giving the named person I was tracing an age that varied 1 year (sometimes more) which made me sceptical that I was still finding the same Joshua. Not knowing Elizabeth's surname (maiden name) I was unsure whether to send for a birth certificate but eventually did so and that revealed that Elizabeth was formerly Hampshire. Even so I was/am still not convinced that this Joshua was the same one I was trying to convince myself was the "right one". due to, as aforementioned , the birth year discrepancies. I think that what was confusing me was that the birth year and christening year were being quoted in different records and these were different. There was then the similar confusion when I discovered that Joshua was married to Ellen and found an Ellen Bottom then a record of Ellen Higgins or Higginbottom (I quote) Being a comparatively "new" family tree researcher I was/still am tending to take things I found in the records as black and white but eventually am realising to be not quite so fixed in my view. This may have made me too suspicious of what I find and over inclined to make double sure I am still on the right track and not going down a blind alley/dead end. I am now reasonably sure that Joshua and Joseph are my ancestors but there is still that slight nagging doubt. Perhaps my problem is that I do not use the correct strategy so any help pointing me in the right strategy direction would be appreciated, particularly once I get into pre. 1837 years. Again, apologies for my lack of appreciating from what different start point we were working from.

I wouldn't say 'mistaken' so much as 'not informed' Paul. It helps considerably to know what one is looking for and particularly to know what you know. You are starting from 'what you know', the ancestor you are investigating, but we don't know who that is.

I still don't understand how you 'found' that Elizabeth Hampshire if you were not looking for her, that is, why you were looking for her.

If you are trying to determine who your Joshua married we would assume you have obtained a birth certificate for one of his children stating the mother's name? I am afraid I am as confused as ever, lol. We do not have the information about your Joshua that you have with which to begin so it feels a little like blind man's buff.

bruceabt1959

You are mistaken. I needed to find if that Elizabeth was the correct one as there are other joshuas born within 2 years of the one I THINK is my ancestor and Joshuas married to Elizabeths. You may have found or know of one Elizabeth Shaw for example. So to be 100% sure I have the correct Joshua I need to match him with the correct Elizabeth.

So it is the Elizabeth Hampshire I posted above that you are interested in and you are only interested in the Brook(e)s if she was the Elizabeth who married the Brook(e)?

Otherwise I don't understand why you found that Elizabeth Hampshire if you see what I mean. You would only have 'found' that Elizabeth Hampshire if you were looking for her or for all Hampshires in that batch for instance.

Hampshire, British Isles
Father: George , Mother: Mary
Batch Number: C018506
1. ELIZABETH HAMPSHIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 DEC 1815 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
2. JOHN HAMPSHIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 03 OCT 1819 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
3. JANE HAMPSHIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 DEC 1823 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
4. RICHARD HAMPSHIRE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 SEP 1814 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

No need for speedy answers, Christmas approaches fast, have a happy one.

Many thanks all for your input. It appears reasonably sure that Joshua was born in 1855 in Deighton, Huddersfield,but not christened until 23/03/1856 (not uncommon). It is also becoming more certain to me that he married Ellen Bottom at Huddersfield registry Office on 12/05/1877. Joshua's siblings are Mary, b. c1833, Betty b. c1834, Charles b. c1839, Sarah b. c1842, James b. c1843, Joe b. c1846, George b. c1851, Thomas b. c1853, Joshua b. c1855, Fred b. c1860 , Jane A b. c 1853 being a visitor to the household during the 1861 census. There appears to be some difference in whether one of the brothers was named john, James or Jim as the 3 variations appear in different census years but this is possibly not too important. I am unsure at the moment if Joe Ibbesson Brooke, Thomas hampshire Brooke and Fred born at Woodhouse nr huddersfield are the brothers Joe, Thomas and Fred of this family although the birth dates are close except for Thomas. As far as Elizabeth is concerned i got her surname Hampshire from IGI CO18506and I don't think she is the one married in 1853. If you have any more thoughts/information please 'bring it on' as I am most grateful for that given so far.

I forgot to tell you that Elizabeth Hampshire's birth year /christening date was obtained from Family Search

If I have the right family in 1861 and maybe you will tell us Paul, this is the family in 1851 and daughter Mary is also the oldest child in 1841

Joseph Brook 41
Elizabeth Brook 35
Mary Brook 18
Betty Brook 17
Chas Brook 12
Sarah Brook 9
Jas Brook 8
Joe Brook 5
Jane Brook 7
Geo Brook 2 Mo

The parents' ages are consistent and Elizabeth's age matches with a DOB of 1815 so I suspect this is the family in question but could you tell us where Elizabeth Hampshire's DOB comes from please?


ELIZABETH HAMPSHIRE ???
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 25 DEC 1815 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

Parents:
Father: GEORGE SHEPLEY HAMPSHIRE
Mother: MARY

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: C018506

This is the 1861 family I posted and there is an interesting thing in the list

British Isles
Father: Joseph Brook, Mother: Elizabeth
Batch Number: C043314


2. Jane Brooke - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 APR 1844 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

4. Jane Amelia Brooke - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 13 OCT 1850 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

5. Joshua Brook - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAR 1856 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

>>>> 6. Thomas Hampshire Brook - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 12 JUN 1853 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

7. Joe Ibbesson Brooke - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 12 APR 1846 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

8. Fred Brook - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 SEP 1859 Woodhouse Near, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

9. Tim Brook - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 11 JUN 1848 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

Edit

I have deleted the ones that obviously belong to another couple (born in the 1880s) and not all of the above are necessarily in the same family, they just have parents Joseph and Elizabeth.

Brook(e) births in the GRO index with second name Hampshire

Births Jun 1842 (>99%)
Brook Jane Hampshire Huddersfield 22 296

Births Jun 1853 (>99%)
Brook Tom Hampshire Huddersfield 9a 384
(with an error in the transcription somewhere)

If this is the info you have about his birth it matches with the entry Kathleen posted above

Joshua Brook

Event(s):
Birth: 13 NOV 1855
Christening: 23 MAR 1856 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

Parents:
Father: Joseph Brook
Mother: Elizabeth Brook

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: C043314

The only marriage that seems a possible (because there is a name missing!!) is this one in 1853:

Name: Elizabeth Hampshire
Year of Registration: 1853
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: York
County: Yorkshire - East Riding, Yorkshire - North Riding, North Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 5 (click to see others on page)
that would knock out my 1861 census, so I guess as everyone has suggested, the birth cert which would confirm elizabeths maiden name.

Regards Linda :)

I wondered whether this was the family in 1861

Name: Joshua Brook
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joe
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Huddersfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Woodhouse Christchurch
Town: Huddersfield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Huddersfield

Household Members:
Name Age
Joe Brook 51
Elizabeth Brook 45
Fredrick Brook 19
Joe Brook 15
John Brook 12
Thomas Brook 8
Joshua Brook 3
Fred Brook 1
Jane L Brook 1


Maybe Paul would direct us to the right family in the census. If the Joshua Brook birth posted above is the right person, and hopefully the father's name could be a guide, certainly the birth certificate would give the mother's name. Where does the possible surname you gave for her come from please Paul?

With a child aged 19 in the 1861 census (and also in the case of the parents in the household Linda posted given their ages) it is possible the parents married before 1837.

Do you know joseph seniors occupation? This one is a woollen cloth finisher iborn in huddersfield?
1861 census

Name: Joe Brook
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Betty
Gender: Male
Where born: Lockwood, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Lockwood
Ecclesiastical parish: Lockwood Emmanuel
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Lockwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 55
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Brook 55
Betty Brook 50
Eliza Brook 16
George Brook 14
Joe Brook 8

Regards Linda :)