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hi, your absolutly marvelous,this is brilliant,the father peter didnt sign the marraige cert he had put a cross,so might explain errors in names and ages
thanks once again
kind regards
june

June

Thanks for coming back to your thread. This is the nearest I can find for Martha - but the ages are wee bit out. There could be another digit after the 4 on Ellen's age and I can't make out Peter's occupation!

1841

Name: Martha Nailor
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Warrington
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Nailor 40
Elen Nailor 4
Gee Nailor 15 [Male child Could be Geo??]
Samuel Nailor 12
Ann Nailor 10
Sharlotte Nailor 8
Martha Nailor 5
John Nailor 1

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 521; Book: 7; Civil Parish: Warrington; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 8; Folio: 35; Page: 11; Line: 18; GSU roll: 306907.

Hi Rootgather,
Recived the marriage certificate for peter swift and florence edmonds,
You were right,
Looks very similar to edwards when wrote in quill,
florence born 1864 had father robet edmons and mother martha naylor both born 1838.
thank and any more help really appreciated
June

it is edmonds,but was getting father and mother wedding cert and fathers birth cert but i have had to send off to warrington rej office which i have done today because the price goes up on 7th of april to £9 per cert,i have found that florence edmonds my great grandmother died in 1889 age 36 and is buried in a paurpers grave in st helens cemertry and that is why elizabeth is living with the seabrooks and pauline is living with john ball and his wife age 10 as a nurse girl in a public house at 56 water street st helens,but i cannot find the father peter swift anywhere after the 1891 census or the children ,,ellen born 1883,,john born 1887,i have even tried death records with no sucsess,i would gratefull if you could be of ant help in that direction
kind regards
june

What a shame you have had so much hassle over this. If it turns out to be Edwards (but I feel pretty sure that it is Edmunds / Emonds) let me know if you need some more census lookups.

hi been back to confirm with rej office and the name could be edmonds i have to pick up sisters birth cert first thing in morning to confirm it as they were closing as i got there will reaffirm in morning
kind regards
june

hi,rootgatherer,what i mean is i will go to rejister office and confirm that they havent made the error,in putting edwards instead of edmonds
kind regards
june

hi rootgatherer,you have been so helpful,but her maiden name was edwards so i think i had better go back to rejister office and check they havent made a mistake and get marraige cert,if possible what do you think
kind regards and thanks for your knowlege,and information
june

It is only the "o" changed to a "u" so in the transcription it is easy to see how Edmonds could be seen as Edmunds. Some census enumerators had poorer handwriting than others.

Hi Rootgather,
Thank you for your help,
Do you think they would make a mistake like edwards to edmunds, you are obviously more experienced on these records than me but can't understand why it says edwards, is there a way to clarify this so I dont go down the wrong route, really appreciate your help
June

1881 Census


All born Warrington


Name: Florence Edmonds
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Female
Where born: Warrington, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: Gerrards Row (No Number)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Fustian Cutter

Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Martha Edmonds 42 Widow
Sarah E. Edmonds 20
Florence Edmonds 17
Elizabeth Edmonds 15
Robert Edmonds 13
Peter Edmonds 11
George Edmonds 9
Jane Edmonds 1 Grand Daughter

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3796; Folio: 93; Page: 28; GSU roll: 1341908.



1871

Name: Martha Edmunds
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Robert
Gender: Female
Where born: Warrington, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Warrington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Elphin
Town: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household schedule number: 82
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Edmunds 33 Wire Drawer b. Birmingham
Martha Edmunds 33
Esther Edmunds 12
Sarah Ellen D 10 *
Thomas D 8 *
Florence D 7 *
Elizabeth D 5 *
Robert D 4 *
Peter Rolands D 2 *
John Naylor 28 Brother

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3906; Folio: 87; Page: 18; GSU roll: 842046.


* Al those "D"s are actually Dittos for Edmunds.


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1859 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edmunds Robert Warrington 8c 149
Naylor Martha Warrington 8c 149

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edmonds Florence Warrington 8c 250
Swift Peter Warrington 8c 250


and hers's your connection Elizabeth Seagraves looks to be the sister of Peter Swift.


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seagrave Joseph Owen Warrington 8c 209
Swift Elizabeth Warrington 8c 209



This is the only likely Peter born Warrington on the 1881 census but his occupation is different.

Name: Peter Swift
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Gender: Male
Where born: Warrn, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 11 Glasshouse Row
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Glass Blower Manuf

Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Massey 78, Widower, General Labourer, b. Preesly, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Swift 25 Daughter, Married, Charwoman ***age on image looks like 45
Peter Swift 22
Elizth. Swift 20 (something?? can't make it out) Cutter,daughter b. Warrington
Thomas Swift 17 Son, Glassblower, b. Warrington

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3791; Folio: 73; Page: 6; GSU roll: 1341906.

I think that Peter, Elizabeth and thomas are actually the grandchildren of the head of the household.


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1854 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Massey Mary Ann Warrington 8c 197
Swift Thomas Warrington 8c 197




1851 Census

Name: Mary Ann Massey
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Warrington, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 95
Household Members: Name Age
John Massey 45
Ann Massey 45
William Massey 22
Benjamin Massey 18
Mary Ann Massey 15
Elizabeth Massey 10
Alice Massey 6


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2203; Folio: 16; Page: 25; GSU roll: 87213.

You may have come across a good connection here I have just looked at her marriage certificate and one of the witness was Thomas seagraves, I cant belive i didnt see this earlier, this may well be my granmother but cant figure out what the connection is
Thanks for your help rootgather
June

thanks Sue, this is correct as the address on birth cert is same, really value all the help im getting, thanks
June

This looks to be the correct family in 1891
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SWIFT, Peter Head Married M 32 1859 Boiler Maker
Warrington
Lancashire
SWIFT, Florence Wife Married F 27 1864
Warrington
Lancashire
SWIFT, Ellen Daughter Single F 8 1883 Scholar
Warrington
Lancashire
SWIFT, John Son Single M 4 1887 Scholar
St Helens
Lancashire
SWIFT, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 2 1889
St Helens
Lancashire
SWIFT, Pauline Daughter Single F 1 (18M) 1890
St Helens
Lancashire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
3022 Folio:
65 Page:
62

Registration District:
Prescot Sub District:
St Helens EnumerationDistrict:
18 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Thomas

Civil Parish:
St Helens Municipal Borough:
St Helens Address:
1, Waterloo Place, St Helens County:
Lancashire

hi to everyone who has aswered my querie i have now bought my grandmothers birth cert and marraige cert,it has her father as peter swift and her mother as florence swift formaly edwards residing in st helens lancashire,thank you so very much for the help as im disabled it was a bit of a trial to obtain these certificates but now im hopefully a bit further on
kindest regards to you all
june

thank you very much to all of you for your help,i will get back to you all,to let you know how i get on with the birth cert
kind regards
june

This might be a possiblility but you need either her birth or marriage certificate to confirm her father's name and occupation.

1891 Census

Name: Elizabeth Ellen Swift
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Ince-in-Makerfield, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Ince in Makerfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Ince in Makerfield
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Hindley
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Swift 30 Collier
Mary Ann Swift 30
Elizabeth Ellen Swift 3


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3061; Folio 63; Page 1; GSU roll: 6098171.


Another possibility??

Name: Elizabeth E Swift
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Eccleston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Eccleston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Swift 44 Joiner
Elizabeth Swift 38
William Swift 18
Thomas Swift 16
James Swift 13
John E Swift 9
Elizabeth E Swift 3
Edith Swift 10/12

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3016; Folio 124; Page 20; GSU roll: 6098126.



This one (birth year is 1 year out place more likely)??

Name: Elizabeth Swift
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 51
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 119
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph O Seagraves 41
Elizabeth Seagraves 40
Thomas Seagraves 18
Peter Seagraves 16
Elizabeth Swift 12

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3527; Folio: 77; Page: 21.




No more guesswork - too many possibilities!! Come back when you have bought her birth certificate and it may be possible to trace her on census records with her parents.

1891

SWIFT, William Head Married M 44 1847 Joiner
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, Elizabeth Wife Married F 38 1853
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, William Son M 18 1873 Bricklayer
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, Thomas Son M 16 1875 Bricklayer
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, James Son M 13 1878 Scholar
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, John E Son M 9 1882 Scholar
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, Elizabeth E Daughter F 3 1888
Eccleston
Lancashire
SWIFT, Edith Daughter F 0 (10M) 1891
Eccleston
Lancashire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
3016 Folio:
124 Page:
20

Registration District:
Prescot Sub District:
Prescot EnumerationDistrict:
12 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Christchurch

Civil Parish:
Eccleston Municipal Borough:
St Helens Address:
St Helens Road, Eccleston, St Helens County:
Lancashire

Looks like she was actually Elizabeth ELLEN Swift.

Her birth certificate will give both parents names.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Swift Elizabeth Ellen Prescot 8b 699