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Help! Genealogy Genius needed. Trail has gone cold on Horace Bertram Butcher born 1878-9 in Aston, Birmingham (Warwickshire). He may have also gone by his middle name Bertram. He married Harriet Ellen Thompson 29/04/01 and had a son Cliffford Bertram Butcher in 1902. By 1911, Harriet also known as Nellie was living back with her father (George Thompson) with her son (in the Birmingham area), but no mention of Horace. .

He was a 'gun barrel borer' and later a 'commissioning agent' in the brewery trade

Any ideas what I can use to trace the elusive Horace, please?

Thanks

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
THOMPSON, George Head Widower M 74 1837 Brewers Traveller Weston Staffordshire VIEW
BUTCHER, Nellie Daughter Married
10 years F 33 1878 Birmingham Warwick VIEW
BUTCHER, Clifford B Grandson M 8 1903 Birmingham Warwick VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
18690 Reference:
RG14PN18690 RG78PN1115 RD392 SD1 ED52 SN218

Registration District:
Solihull Sub District:
Solihull Enumeration District:
52 Parish:
Yardley

Address:
38 Nansen Road Sparkhill

Connection??
Horace Butcher died of wounds 20/3/1918
Enlistment location Birmingham.
Death location home
Kings Royal Rifle corps
21st battalion
No R/12711.

Maryb

I'm not sure about this one, do you know what he did ?
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
HIGGINS, Walter Head Married M 33 1878 Shipping Clerk Salford Lancashire VIEW
HIGGINS, Ada Wife Married
11 years F 33 1878 Bootle Lancashire VIEW
HIGGINS, Doris Spencer Daughter F 10 1901 School Bootle Lancashire VIEW
HIGGINS, Walter Son M 5 1906 Bootle Lancashire VIEW
HAYNES, Frederic Boarder Single M 21 1890 Hairdresser Leamington Spa Warwickshire VIEW
BUTCHER, Bertie Boarder Married M 34 1877 Hairdresser Swansea Glamorganshire VIEW
NEAL, Sydney Horace Boarder Single M 23 1888 Dental Operator Liverpool Lancashire

According to the 1901 he was a Gun Barrel Maker

I have access to some Birmingham data via the Midland Historical Data website. They have this....

1903, Butcher Horace Bertram, 376 Rotton Park road

Nothing comes up for that address for any other years, i cannot also see that address on the 191 census!

Tracey x

??
Name: Horace Butcher
Birth Place: Birmingham
Death Date: 20 Mar 1918
Death Location: Home
Enlistment Location: Birmingham
Rank: Rifleman
Regiment: King's Royal Rifle Corps
Battalion: 21st Battalion
Number: R/12711
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Home

I'm not so sure that Horace is the right one?

Name: BUTCHER
Initials: H R
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: King's Royal Rifle Corps
Unit Text: 21st Bn.
Age: 27
Date of Death: 20/03/1918
Service No: R/12711
Additional information: Son of Mrs. V. Butcher, of 22, Gee St., Birmingham.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 167. 42798D.
Cemetery: BIRMINGHAM (WITTON) CEMETERY


Tracey x

This death record......about the right age

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Horace B Butcher
Name: Horace B Butcher
Death Registration Month/Year: 1937
Age at death (estimated): 59
Registration district: Blackpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 732

Andy

not there in 1911 -


294 HAYWOOD, James William Head Married M 57 1854 Primtime Methodist Minster Devon Exmouth VIEW
294 HAYWOOD, Edith C Wife Married
20 years F 57 1854 London Portland PL VIEW
294 HAYWOOD, Lionel G Son Single M 15 1896 Draper's Apprentice Kent Canterbury VIEW
294 HAYWOOD, Stanley J Son Single M 15 1896 Drapers Clerk Kent Canterbury VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
18016 Reference:
RG14PN18016 RG78PN1095 RD384 SD1 ED28 SN294

Registration District:
Birmingham Sub District:
Ladywood Enumeration District:
28 Parish:
Birmingham

Address:
376 Rotten Park Road Birmingha County:
Warwickshire

maybe married again?

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Horace B Butcher
Name: Horace B Butcher
Spouse Surname: Crew
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1931
Registration district: Dudley
Registration county (inferred): Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 2058
Find Spouse: Doris Crew

Yes is the correct Horace Bertram Butcher (Nansen Road, Sparkhill) . Nellie was his wife realy name 'Harriet Ellen Thompson', and George Thompson (1837) was her father. Horace's son Clifford Bertram Butcher was born 24th December 1902 (registered 1903). It says Nellie has been married ten years which is correct. Harriet and Horace were married in April 1901 in Kings Norton, Birmingham. Horace was born in 1879 in Aston, Birmingham.
He was a gun barrell borer and later a 'commisioning agent' in the wine/brewery trade, as was his Father in Law, George Thompson.

Horace Bertram Butcher (1879) would have been 35 to 39 during WW!, argubably a bit old. Although he did have a nephew also Horace), so the death during WW1 could be him

Thanks to the people who posted about Horace R(eginald) Butcher who died in WW1. This was Horace Bertram Butcher's nephew (1891), so that's another piece of my family puzzle. However, Horace Bertram (1879) is still 'on the loose',

Gary,

Did you not see Andrew's posting?

Rose

Found out that Horace Bertram Butcher's birth was registered July-Sept, 1878. The 1879 figure is an estimate from the 1881 Census, where he is shown age 2. His D.O.B was estimated from this.

Hi Gary ,you say later Horace was in wine trade.
When exactly was this?

Maryb

@ Mary . . Referred to as a 'commissioning agent'. Both his father and his father-in-law were licensed victuallers (however you spell it). So I assumed he 'flogged' booze.

@ Rose. . .thanks, I'd missed that one. And with the revised date of birth it's spot on, I'll check it out.

@ Maryb
He is shown as gun barrel borer on 1901, living with some of his sisters in Yardley. However, I'm sure that he was listed as 'commissioning agent' on his marriage certificate, also 1901.