Find Ancestors

Hi LancashireAnn,
thanks for the information, it looks as though you have once again cracked it. many thanks. M.
I now have loads of "stuff" to sort and get my head round and filed away as I am in danger of running to all four corners of the tree at once!!!!!!
My grateful thanks to all you helpers. M.

don't know if this will help finding which John Livesey's death is yours but lancashirebmd.org.uk gives death ages for years before gro idexes do

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1845
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
LIVSEY John 80 Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/5/94
LIVSEY John 86 Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/4/486

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
LIVESEY John 46 Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/22/201

so if John was age 35 on 1841 census - age rounded down to nearest 5 ie aged 35-39 - he could well have been 46 in 1849

just as a minor bit of confirmation of her marriage adress

the address of the church:

The Church of St Catharine, Scholes, Wigan
in the County of -- Lancashire --

Hi alviegal
After inspecting with death cert ,with the help of a magnifying glass,I do believe that the death of the Elizabeth, the mother was childbirth related, the death cert said "nephritis" not sure of spelling, which when we googled it said Renal Failure, quite often connnected with eclampsia and childbirth.
The death of the baby was certified at "Marasmus" again not sure of spelling, which when googled said "failure to thrive" which in todays terms would indicate abuse or neglect but in times gone by was linked to poverty and the death of the mother when the child was young and no alternative substitute was available, so how sad is that!!!!! Thank goodness things have changed.

Really appreciate the update.

Happy hunting,

Ozi

Thanks so much for the update. It is very gratifying to know we have found the right info to help you put a few more twigs on your tree....conversely if it's wrong, we can try to get back on the right track.
So sad about the two Elizabeths, I wonder if it was complications with childbirth? We really don't know how lucky we are these days, medical knowledge is so advanced.
Let us know if you need any help again.

Good searching...Liz

Hello all,
just to update you, thank you all for the info on Elizabeth Livsey and her family, you remember that she married James Orrell in 1854 and on the 1861 census james was listed as a widower with sons John aged 6 and William aged 4 and now comes the sad part, Elizabeth Died in November 1860 aged 30 so they had been married for only 6 years and her daughter also named Elizabeth died in December 1860 aged 5 months. I had sent for the death certs on the off chance that they were correct cos i just had a feeling they could be connected. So once again thank you for your help I just now need to determine which death for John Livsey belongs to mine,M

Ozi, thank you so much, I have genes and FMP and trying to decipher the 1841 census on there was almost impossible. So your two possible dates for John's death now make sense.
Once again many thanks M

wellybobs

Elizabeth and her parents are on the previous page to the younger children.

1841:
John Levesy abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan, Lancashire
Elizabeth Levesy abt 1811 Lancashire, England Wigan, Lancashire
Elizabeth Levesy abt 1832 Wigan, Lancashire

This enumerator has the quirk of placing the double line to denote the end of a household at the beginning of the next, so Ancestry separates John from his family.

Ozi

Ozi you bet me to it, but I am a little puzzled, John Livesy is not listed on the 1841census, so I was going to assume that died before the date of the census , the 1841 census was taken on 6th June 1841 so that was the year I was looking at........ neither of the entries you have found match that assumption... wot do you think?

Thank you all so much, I don't know how you do it.... I have been tearing my hair out for the past few days..... I take it from what you have found that her father died before the 1841 census..... although one of you found John on the 1841 census as a publican? And from what you have found her mother remarried to James Ince (plus his numerous progeny), beggers for punishment thats what I say!!
I would never of thought of Scholes Street, just shows I have a lot to learn!!
will now try to find Johns death details. once again, Many thanks, you are all brilliant. M.

Deaths Mar 1845
LIVSEY John Wigan 21 624

Deaths Sep 1849
Livesey John Wigan 21 561

Marriages Jun 1850 (>99%)
Davies James Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
Gaskell Jane Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
>>INCE James Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
Jones Elizabeth Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
>>Livesay Elizabeth Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
Mather Allen Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
Parr Ann Wigan 21 706 Scan available - click to view
Sharrock Peter Wigan 21 706

IGI Individual Record
ELIZABETH LIVSEY
Birth: 30 OCT 1831
Christening: 01 JAN 1832 Wigan, Lancashire, England

Parents:
Father: JOHN LIVSEY
Mother: ELIZABETH

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: C005569 Dates: 1829 - 1830

1841 census states john is a publican

And again
1851 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Livsey
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Wigan
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Wigan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: Scholes Street

Occupation:

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel: 1d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
James Ince 37
Elizabeth Ince 42 - Asped, Lancashire [It looks more like Aspul on the image]
Mary Ince 13
Cathrine Ince 8
William Ince 5
Elizabeth Ince 3
Hannah Ince 2
Elizabeth Livsey 19
Elle Livsey 16
Ann Livsey 14
John Livsey 12
Joshua Livsey 7
Robert Livsey 5


1881: Elizabeth Ince abt 1808 Aspull, Lancashire, England Wife (Head) Wigan, Lancashire


Aspull is just north of Wigan.

What about this? Look at the address.


1841 census transcription details for: Scholes Street, Wigan
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107 Piece: 523 Book/Folio: 2/8 Page: 9

Reg. District: Wigan Sub District: Wigan
Parish: Wigan Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Wigan
Address: Scholes Street, Wigan
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
LIVESY, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Lancashire
LIVESY, Elizabeth F 9 1832
LIVSEY, Ellen F 7 1834 Lancashire
LIVSEY, Ann F 4 1837 Lancashire
LIVSEY, John M 2 1839 Lancashire
LIVSEY, Margaret F 0 (6 months) 1841 Lancashire

Please can you help, I am trying to find more info on Elizabeth Livsey (or Livesey) c 1830. She married James Hewett Orrell on 12/3/1854 at St. Catherines Church Wigan.
Her age on marriage cert is given as 24, her father is John Livsey a farmer. residence for her at that time was Scholes ( I think that is in Yorkshire, but not sure) On 1861 census James Orrell is listed as a widow with two sons age 6 and 4 years. I cannot find any listing for Elizabeth on 1841 or 1851 census. any help would be appreciated.
Many thanks. M.