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"I have ascertained that Arthur Townsend M or was living with Alma Scott."

Actually, I think I did that for you.

Did I not address this?? Yes, I did. They were not married. Emily was born Scott.

"Florence Lily was my Grt G Mother I think she was married to Anthony John Tustin My G Father"

I figured this out.


Why don't you just use FreeBMD like the rest of us do and get your facts?

You're welcome.

Hi again. It appears 85 Little Green Lane was bombed in the Blitz. And she did indeed move to 123 Little Green Lane and I never remember her as being married. In the 60s I used to go over there from Shirley where I then lived about 8 miles away to pick up some tripe which she always sold GREEN not bleached as most butchers did then and have to by law now and the smell was horrendous. But dad loved his Tripe and Mushy Peas ( the Soaked Variety ) She lived in 1 room at the back of the shop and i couldnt wait to get out and into the fresh air. Dont remember her ever having anyone else there Its slowly coming back but its been well over 50 years and 30 since I had any contact with my family.

Hi Looks like you are on the right lines. I have ascertained that Arthur Townsend M or was living with Alma Scott. Emily was one of their daughters.
Florence Lily was my Grt G Mother I think she was married to Anthony John Tustin My G Father. she died in 33 quite young and he re married a divorcee catherine amelia Jones nee Gallon. Does this make the picture any clearer or just muddier.

It would appear that Emily's brother Alfred , 25 ,was married and living with Catherine Agnes, 21, at 3 bk 14 Bolton Road Aston in 1911 and they had son 1 yr old Arthur. They went on , it would appear, to have many children, one of whom is the youngest son with them in 1950 as I posted earlier.

will wait to see now if we are on right lines when Neville returns to thread

bw
vanessa

The Alfred Arthur/ Catherine Agnes appear as a couple for a number of years in Bordesley Green then Yardley, South Birmingham . There is another Townsend with them in 1950- male. If you want me to PM further details Neville then let me know. I cannot see any other Townsends with them.

Bw
Vanessa

I was a little anxious to get my Emily Scott info into the thread, Vanessa, and hadn't paid proper attention to what you'd added!

(I ran across it while seeing whether there was any connection in this thread:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1237629)

Yes, it looks like you have indeed found her in the mid-20th century!

No Hilda Townsend was born in Birmingham after 1914, but there were several before that. To be on the electoral roll in 1935, she would have had to be born by 1914 of course, duh. If that's the only year she appeared, perhaps she had just turned 21, and then married ...

There are two marriages in Birmingham in 1938, Hilda I and Hilda M.

Births Jun 1914 ?
Townsend Hilda M Turner Aston 6d 946

Marriages Sep 1909
PORTCH May Aston 6d 527
PRATT Arthur Frederick Aston 6d 527
? TOWNSEND Alfred Arthur Aston 6d 527
? TURNER Catherine Agnes Aston 6d 527


1891

Arthur Townsend 45
Alma Townsend 34
Emily Townsend 11
> Alfred Townsend 6
Susan M Townsend 3
William Townsend 3/12


So Hilda could be a niece, daughter of Emily's brother Alfred?

(Townsend did marry Turner, because there is a Pratt-Portch birth, a unique combo I'm sure; but I can't see the Townsend-Turner couple in 1911.)

There is this marriage

Name: Emily J Scott
Spouse Surname: Haynes
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1925
Registration district: Birmingham North
Registration county (inferred): West Midlands
Volume Number: 6d
Page Number: 1084

with births 1925 and 1928, but that seems unlikely, as our Emily would have been 47 years old in 1928.


Neville you can find those births yourself at FreeBMD by searching for

births
surname HAYNES
mother's surname SCOTT
county Warwickshire


There is this death that matches the name of the husband of that Emily J Scott:

Name: George F Haynes
Death Registration Month/Year: 1969
Age at death (estimated): 76 = dob c1893
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 571


Only the Scott-Haynes marriage certificate would say.

Hi Janey, looks like you have come up trumps.

I found a couple of things which I have just posted and some contradict info Neville gave regarding addresses in Birmingham so I will have to wait and see if my finds are correct.

I do appear to have found Emily Townsend , apparently unmarried and with no sign of children unless" Hilda Townsend " living with her in 1935 is a daughter.

Vanessa

Three people have Emily Scott 1881 (one says 1880) Birmingham in their trees here at GR.


Look what happens when you have me on your side.

Stop the presses.


1901

Arthur Townsend 54
Almo S Townsend 46 - the S stands for Scott; see below
Emily Townsend 20
Susan Townsend 12
Wm Townsend 10
Florence Townsend 7


1881

Name: Emily Scott
Age: 2 months
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Birmingham

Name: Alma Scott
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Birmingham
Occupation: Housekeeper (Dom)
Condition as to marriage: Unmarried

Name: Arthur Townsend
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Myria
Where born: Cowiston, Warwickshire, England
Occupation: Baker
Condition as to marriage: Unmarried

Name: Myria Townsend
Age: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Mother
Where born: Berkswell, Warwickshire, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Housekeeper (Dom)

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Street Address: 10 Horsefair
Registration district: Birmingham

Arthur Townsend 30
Alma Scott 26
Emily Scott
Myria Townsend 59


It doesn' t appear that Arthur and Alma ever married.


Births Mar 1881
SCOTT Emily Jane Birmingham 6d 207

Births Dec 1855
Scott Alma Birmingham 6d 103

Deaths Jun 1902
Scott Alma 48 Aston 6d 140

Not wanting to add any further confusion here but the only family on the Birmingham electoral roll from 1912 through to 1940s at 177 Somerville road Small Heath were called Bollins. Does this fit ?

Vanessa

Edit : there is an Emily Townsend at 85 little green lane Small Heath from 1925- 1939. The only person listed with her is a Hilda Townsend in 1935.
She then moved to 123 little green lane on the rolls in 1945-55

according to elec roll - 78 henshaw rd
1912- 1930 there is only a family called Vann living there ??

By the way, I've deciphered what you were saying about "Susan M" and the "M" disappearing. People did not ordinarily show their middle name or initial on censuses, unless they were known by their middle name, most commonly.

Births Sep 1888
TOWNSEND Susan Maria Aston 6d 271

Name: Susan Maria Neal
Birth Date: 4 Aug 1888
Death Registration Month/Year: 1981
Registration district: Taunton
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 23
Page: 1389

Obviously the household in 1911 is correct; the one middle name that is given makes it a perfect match.


So is there a will here, and a way to it?

Neville, you had a grandmother Townsend. Sister of the Emily in the 1911. Is this a duh? Since you had that info and no one else did, and you chose not to mention it, it's for you to decide, I guess.

You have access to FreeBMD.

Births Mar 1881 (could have been born late 1880)
TOWNSEND Emily Birmingham 6d 77

No middle name. Therefore did not marry Henry E Neal 1913 Stratford. (I can't decipher what you're saying about marry "Edward nor Samuel" Neal. Susan M married Edward.)

There are no Emily Townsend marraiges in Birmingham after 1911 until 1967.

No Emily no-middle-name Townsend born c1881 has died in Birmingham. The closest is:

Name: Emily Townsend
Death Registration Month/Year: 1966
Age at death (estimated): 88 = dob c1878
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 480

1911
TOWNSEND, Emily Daughter Single F 30 1881 Birmingham
(and/or the one who was 20 in 1901)

If she died "in her 80s", it would have been in the 1960s.

More than several years ago. But the times coincide approximately with Neville's childhood I think.

If the Emily Townsend in question had children, she wasn't likely an unmarried Emily Townsend in 1911.

Perhaps Neville you would tell us when this was that you called her Aunt Em and she operated a tripe shop. Maybe even some idea of whether she was an aunt to you or your parents, or just a family friend, etc. Surely you know whether the surname Townsend is in one of your own lines.

There are 8 marriages of an Emily to a Townsend in Warwickshire (6 Birmingham, 2 Coventry, those two in parentheses below) 1919-1961. None of an Emma before this century.

The surnames of the Emily marriages are (Allen), Archer, Dolan, Macallister, Press, (Rawlings), Stokes and Taylor. A quick exact-search query at Ancestry for Emily marrying Townsend in Warwickshire finds them (I believe even without paying for a subscription). Perhaps one of those surnames means something.

There are numerous Emily Townsend deaths in Birmingham after the mid-1950s, of course.

Sorry all above relates to Susan M Townsend dont know y if same family the M has vanished on Census.

Thanks for this may well be helpful. Since post I have ascertained that in Dec 1913 the Townsends lived at 78 Henshaw Rd, Small Heath. Birmingham. Also she married an Edward Neal nor samuel. She is described as a Spinster Warehouse Girl Father Arthur Townsend Shopkeeper. Now Aunt Em vanishes doesnt show up anywhere but I know that she owned the Tripe Shop as prev stated.Florence Lily is shewn as Born 6th Sep 1892 at 14 not 4 Butler St.Her mother was Alma Townsend nee Scott. He is described a Butchers Journeyman. She died 30th Oct 1933. In 1913 Arthur Townsend on the marriage of Florence to my Grandfather is described as a butcher.of 177 Somerville Rd, Small heath. I am still not 100% sure that there are not 2 familys close together getting mixed up. Townsend was a very popular name in those days. But it still doesnt find the mysterious aunt em.Any thoughts gratefully received.

Is this the person you refer to in 1911???
1911 census - household transcription
Person: TOWNSEND, Emily
Address: 4 Butler St South

Cost:
You will be charged 10 credits for a transcript and 30 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOWNSEND, Arthur Head Widower M 69 1842 Potted Meat Maker Coventry Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Emily Daughter Single F 30 1881 Birmingham VIEW
TOWNSEND, Susan Daughter Single F 22 1889 Asembler Birmingham VIEW
TOWNSEND, Florence Lily Daughter Single F 18 1893 Machinist Birmingham VIEW
TOWNSEND, William Son Single M 20 1891 Blacksmith Birmingham VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
18195 Reference:
RG14PN18195 RG78PN1100 RD385 SD2 ED6 SN263

Registration District:
Aston Sub District:
Bordesley Enumeration District:
6 Parish:
Aston

Address:
4 Butler St South County:
Warwickshire



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
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Have a family that could be Emily was 20 in 1901 census there was also a susan born 1889 But I only have a Susan M. born abt same time. I always thought her mother was a clayton but this one doesnt appear same. RG13 2860 is one I am looking at with Address of 14 But or Butler st, Sth Aston. Susan M. Married a Samuel NEAL in Aston 6D914 Oct 1913 but cant prove this is same one.Will C what I can find further. Neville.

need relevant dates here

Can anyone help I am trying to find Emily Townsend who I used to call Aunt Em. For many years she used to keep The Tripe Shop in Little Green Lane, Small heath, Birmingham. I believe this has now gone.I am certain she died several years ago in her 80s but believe she had children I have information on my Family Tree but have been told it is incorrect and not the right family. Cabn anyone out there confirm any info for me. Thanks. Neville Tustibn.