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England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Catherine Short
Name: Catherine Short
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Year of Registration: 1881
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 27
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 172 (click to see others on page)

Name: Thomas Short<<<Carman
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Spouse Name: Catherine Sullivan
Spouse Age: 21
Event Date: 27 Jan 1873
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Edward Short<<General Dealer


I think its a different couple to that on 1881posted here,but then again.?

Marriages Mar 1873

Short Thomas Shoreditch 1c 176
SULLIVAN Catherine Shoreditch 1c 176

Your grandmothers baptism then.
It says she was born January the 10th 1883 on here,not 10.3.1883 ,In fact she would not have been born to have been baptised on the 4th March.

Are you certain of her birth date and what was her fathers occupation on her birth cert?

Name: Mary Ann Short
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 4 Mar 1883
Father's Name: Thomas Short<<Cabinet Maker.
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Short
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Address...3 Ramsey Street,same as on 1881 census posted on here,except that was number 2

And in 1891 they are at 17 Ramsey Street.

yes im sure the family in the 1891 census must be them as i know they were the names of my grandmother and her 2 sisters.my grandmother is mary Ann Short born 10.3.1883 in bethnal green.i have seen her birth cert once and her mother is mary ann harris born 1845 or 46.
i had Thomas Short as being born in 1846 but it says in the census that it was 1841. as you say maybe they werent married and she just used his name.
will this prove more difficult to trace back further if i dont have a marriage cert.
thanks so much for your help i really dont have a clue.
lynda

1891 England Census
about Mary A Short
Name: Mary A Short
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 11a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary A Short 44
Mary A Short 18
Eliza Short 13
Marian Short 10
John Pynes 43

Another possible, i cant see this family in 1881.

Hi Lynda.

Do you have a childs birth cert that gave you Mary Ann Harris name?
Are you certain that the census posted here of 1891 is your family?

What was was your starting point please?Your grandmother?What was her name and when and where was she born.

I ask this so I can try and work back to try and find her parents possible marriage,if indeed they did marry,lots didnt, but just told everyone they were.

hi Shirley im a bit confused as the wifes name was Mary Ann harris which is the first entry Helen gave me.
thank you for helping
lynda

This should give you mums full name IF the second one listed is the family
Name: Catherine Short
Year of Registration: 1877
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 297

yes im sure it is them as there were 3 sisters and those names im just confused as i had them both as being born in 1846 and there seems to be a large age gap.but the names are correct.maybe thats why i couldnt find them.how do i go about obtaining a marriage certificate, thanks for helping.
lynda

1881 England Census
about Thomas Short
Name: Thomas Short
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Catherine Short
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Ramsey St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Furniture Dealer

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Short 48
Catherine Short 26
Emma Short 7
Elizabeth Short 5
Catherine Short 3

1891 England Census
about Thomas Short
Name: Thomas Short
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Short
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthews
Town: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green South
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Short 50
Mary Short 36
Emma Short 18
Mary Short 9
Eliza Short 11

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Original
Record

View original image

Is this them?

i was assured by other family members that were definately married

many thanks

freebmd

BUT.....how do you 'know' they were married?

Producing offspring didn't require a marriage then, any more than it does now.

I cant find any details for a marriage certificate but i know they were married ..how can i find this?
thanks lynda

The names of each of their fathers will be on the marriage cert

I seem to have reached a full stop trying to find the parents of both sides of my gt grandparents.how can i go further back?
their names are
Thomas Short 1846 bethnal green london
and Mary ann Harris 1846 bethnal green i would really appreciate any help.
thank you.