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Hi all

I seem to have made a mess of things yesterday. I did not realise that one should not start a new thread when one had already had one about the same person . I have had several of my threads closed down so thought I was smart to start a new one,which I then when I got a reply, deleted by mistake.
I am sorry if I have given anyone extra work because of this I will follow the rules in the future as I have been helped so many times by so many kind people.

No ER's during WW2, but you could check on the pre-War ER's in the main library for the area which might prove informative

Maybe it was wise to delete your other thread

I see you have 5 other threads about these people

jax

Just managed to klick away my theard. Sorry.

In answer to my last reply I do have the certificate of William Robert Penn died 1926 registered by daughter .Julia did not remarry according to my cousin. Death of Julianna Mary Penn 1941 Chelmsford was registered at the adress by John Wicksaw occupier of house. By Julia's name she is of 21 St Albans Road,spinster daughter of Penn.
Are there any directories so one could see if she remained at 11 Tower Road St leonards on sea and was there at her death in 1941

Occupier of house difficult to read on certificate possible John Wicksaw. Her father would have been Cross of course not Penn,but as you say the occupier of the house might not have known that she was a widow. Julia had 9 children diffucult to believe that one of them would not have signed the certificate . The tree at ancestory is mine as I thought it was going to be the one in 1941.

You say Julia's death was registered by the occupier of the house. Do you know the name of this person

I was thinking the same Astra.

Christine

It could be that if she died alone and without her family around the death in 1941 with Father Penn could be the correct one. If the informant knew very little about her they might have just assumed that she was single and not a widow.
A tree on Ancestry has her death in 1941

Julia(Juliana) Mary born March Q 1851 St Lukes,Shoreditch. Father James Charles Cross.
Julia was mentioned as the widow in obituary at death of husband William Penn 1926.
Julia's Death was registered by the occupier of the house,no family connection as known. Juliana as daughter of PENN occupation unknown.

Who registered the death of the one who died in 1941?

I was wondering why a father would be named as Payne on a death cert for someone aged 90.

Christine

Don't like to make it easy do they

PENN, W R Head Married M 60 1851 Musician Hoxton VIEW
PENN, J M Wife Married
37 years F 59 1852 None St Luks VIEW
PENN, F Daughter Single F 25 1886 Silk Blouser Hastings VIEW
PENN, M Daughter Single F 23 1888 Silk Blouser Hastings VIEW
PENN, A Daughter Single F 20 1891 Silk Blouser Hastings VIEW
PENN, F Son Single M 16 1895 Musician Hastings VIEW

Walthamstow

Address:
25 Hazelwood Road Walthamstow Essex County:
Essex

was she definitely still alive after her husband died?

Is this the birth?


Births Mar 1851 (>99%)
Cross Juliana Mary Shoreditch 2 476

Do you have a birth reference for her please?

No I have not thought of this but she was 75 in 1926 when her husband William Robert Penn dies so I think it is unlikely.

Have you considered that she could have re-married?

That was what I had in mind when I asked if her name was definitely Penn at death

Thank you for your replies.Julia Penn who I am looking for was born Cross married William Robert Penn as you have found She is the correct person in the 1901 census.So she must have been a Penn when she died. I don't think that the death certificate I obtained could be right as it definately stated that she was a spinster with father Penn. It seems strange that she cannot be found. I have contacted the local paper of Hastings and they cannot find her in their index either.

Is this her marriage?

Marriages Sep 1874
Cross Julia Mary Shoreditch 1c 248
Langwith Matilda Shoreditch 1c 248
Penn William Robert Shoreditch 1c 248
Winlove Frances Shoreditch 1c 248

Could the informant on the death certificate of Julianna M. Penn, that you obtained, have her details wrong, so that she is your relative?
I cannot see a birth for a Juliana Penn in 1851, nor on the censuses.

Have you considered either of these?

Deaths Jun 1924 Payne Julia 69 Hastings 2b 38

Deaths Mar 1932 Payne Julia 82 Eastbourne 2b 119