Find Ancestors

Annie Knight or Wyman or .....
Need fresh eyes to look at this lady, I suspect that she was illegitimate, but I am struggling to find her birth/baptism .
She gave various ages on the census’ so her birth would be between 1854-1856 [have a feeling she was older than that though from a photo I have seen of her in 1903] born Knebworth, Hertfordshire.

1911
Address Luccombe Villa, Hutton Grove, Finchley, Middlesex
TOWNSEND, John Head Married M 56 Gardener Domestic Rainham Essex
>>>>>TOWNSEND, Annie Wife Married 35 years F 55 Knebworth Hertfordshire
PATERSON, George Andrew SiL Married M 39 Mason Pimlico Westminster
PATERSON, Emma Daisy Daughter Married 7 years F 27 Potters Bar Middlesex
PATERSON, Annie May Granddaughter F 1 Finchley Middlesex
CARVILL, Albert Boarder Married M 23 Bricklayer Bilton Warwickshire


1901
Address: 9 Rose Cottage, Hutton grove, Finchley, Middlesex
TOWNSEND, John Head Married M 46 Gardener Domestic Rainham Essex
>>>>>TOWNSEND, Annie Wife Married F 45 Knebworth Herts
TOWNSEND, Emma D Daughter Single F 18 Assistant School Teacher Potters Bar Middlesex
TOWNSEND, Harry C Son Single M 13 Potters Bar Middlesex


1891 On this one they have their birthplaces muddled up!!!
Address 10 Birkbeck Road, Finchley, Middlesex
TOWNSEND, John Head Married M 36 Gardener Knebworth Herts
>>>>>TOWNSEND, Annie Wife Married F 36 Rainham Essex
TOWNSEND, Daisie Daughter F 8 Potters Bar Middlesex
TOWNSEND, Harry Son M 3 Potters Bar Middlesex
ALLINGBOROUGH, Charles Boarder M 15 Garden Labourer Potters Bar Middlesex


1881 this was the hardest census to find for this couple, mistranscribed and her husband used his fathers name!!!
Address: Darkes Lane, South Mimms, Middlesex
TOUNSEND, William Head Married M 27 Gardener Rainham Essex
>>>>>TOUNSEND, Annie Wife Married F 27 Knebworth Hertfordshire


1871 Address; Heath Road, North Mimms, Hertfordshire
KNIGHT, Philip Head M 55 Codicote, Hertfordshire
>>>>>KNIGHT, Hannah Niece F 16 Knebworth, Hertfordshire
FISHER, Susannah Mother-In-Law F 84 Codicote, Hertfordshire


1861 Address: Ridge Hill Road, Shenley, London Colney
KNIGHT, Philip Head Married M 47 Gardener Codicote Hertfordshire
KNIGHT, Emma Wife Married F 46 Codicote Hertfordshire
>>>>>KNIGHT, Anne Niece F 5 Knebworth Hertfordshire

Annie married John Townsend 23 Dec 1875, Potters Bar, Middlesex
John 21 Gardener, father William Townsend [Farm Bailiff].
Annie 21 [c1854] father Charles WYMAN [Bachelor]. There is a note underneath "A Knight adopted by her uncle Phillip Knight, Gardener".
Witnesses were Phillip Knight and Mary Ann Dimnock.
EDIT more than likely reads Butcher, not Bachelor next to Charles Wyman......sorry folks!

Children of the marriage:
George Townsend 1880-1880
Emma Daisy Townsend 1883-1954, on her birth cert it says Annie Townsend formerly WHYMAN
Harry Campbell Townsend 1888 – aft 1911

Death ref - 2 possibles from Freebmd both Annie
1, 1920 Sep, Barnet, vol 3a, page 325, age 68 (1852)
2, 1924 Dec, Barnet, vol 3a, page 449, age 68 (1856)

Possible births??
Jun qtr 1850 - KNIGHT, Ann, Bp’s Stortford, vol 6, page 525 [haven’t followed this one up yet]
Mar qtr 1851 – KNIGHT, Ann, Hitchin, vol 6, page 75 [tried this one and it’s not the right one, although Knebworth would come under the Hitchin reg district]
Mar qtr 1856 – WYMAN, Anne Maria Westcott, Royston, vol 3a, page 201 [followed this lady up too not her either]


Any help, suggestions of where to look, or is that my brick wall?? Thanks for your time and sorry about the ‘book’!!
Patricia:)

connected way back?!

Husband's Name
Jeremy Or Jeremiah (The Elder) KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-P8J) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1640 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: May 1712 Place: Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Buried: 25 May 1712 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Married: 25 Mar 1668 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

Father: Jeremie Or Jeremiah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-XKL) Family
Mother: Ann Leigh Or Lea Or ALEA (AFN:1QB4-BJ5)

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Wife's Name
Sarah PUDDIFOOT (AFN:1QB5-P9Q) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1647 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Married: 25 Mar 1668 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

Father:
Mother:

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Children

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1. Sex Name
M John KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PGR) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1678 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: Aft 22 1714 Apr Place: Of Rickmansworth, Herts, Engl

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2. Sex Name
F Mary KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PJ6) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1682 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: Aft 1761 Place: Of Ringshall, Ivinghoe, Bucks, Engl

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3. Sex Name
M A Child Of Jeremiah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PKD) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1684 Place: Hemel Hempstead, Herts, England
Buried: 27 Nov 1686 Place: Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

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4. Sex Name
F Hannah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PLL) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1686 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl

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5. Sex Name
F Sarah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PBX) Pedigree

Born: 1668 Place:
Christened: 22 Mar 1668 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

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6. Sex Name
M Joseph KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PH0) Pedigree

Born: 1680 Place:
Christened: 6 May 1680 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: Abt 1756 Place: Of Felden, Or Ivinghoe, Bedfordshire, Engl

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7. Sex Name
F Elizabeth KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PC5) Pedigree

Born: 1670 Place:
Christened: 14 Sep 1670 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

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8. Sex Name
M Jeremiah IV KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PDC) Pedigree

Died: 25 Jan 1750/1751 Place: Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Buried: Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Born: 1670 Place:
Christened: 18 Mar 1670/1671 Place: St Marys, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

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9. Sex Name
M William KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-PFK) Pedigree

Born: Apr 1676 Place: Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Christened: Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

Husband's Name
Jeremie Or Jeremiah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-XKL) Pedigree

Born: 1617 Place:
Christened: 20 Apr 1617 Place: St Marys, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: Place: Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Buried: 19 Mar 1668/1669 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Married: 28 Nov 1639 Place: St Stephens, St Albans, Herts, Engl

Father: Jeremie KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-XJD) Family
Mother: Jone Joanna ORD (AFN:Z7FN-SP)

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Wife's Name
Ann Leigh Or Lea Or ALEA (AFN:1QB4-BJ5) Pedigree

Born: 1614 Place:
Christened: 23 Oct 1614 Place: St Leonards, Flamstead, Herts, Engl
Buried: 18 Apr 1660 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Married: 28 Nov 1639 Place: St Stephens, St Albans, Herts, Engl

Father: Edward ALEA (LEA) (AFN:13GK-KKG) Family
Mother: Anna EWER (AFN:13GK-KLN)

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Children

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1. Sex Name
M Jeremy Or Jeremiah (The Elder) KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-P8J) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1640 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: May 1712 Place: Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Buried: 25 May 1712 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

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2. Sex Name
F Mary KNIGHT (AFN:1QB2-RMQ) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1642/1643 Place: Of Gt. Gaddesden, Herts, Engl

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3. Sex Name
F Elizabeth KNIGHT (AFN:1QB2-RNX) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1646 Place: Herts, Engl

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4. Sex Name
F Joane KNIGHT (AFN:1QB2-RP5) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1648 Place: Herts, Engl

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5. Sex Name
F Sarah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB2-RQC) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1651 Place: Herts, Engl

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6. Sex Name
M Henry KNIGHT (AFN:1QB2-RRK) Pedigree

Born: 1658 Place:
Christened: 20 Feb 1658 Place: St John The Bapt, Gt Gaddesden, Herts, Engl
Died: Bef 1668 Place:

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7. Sex Name
F Anne KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-D80) Pedigree

Born: 1640 Place:
Christened: 30 Jan 1640/1641 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

Husband's Name
Jeremie KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-XJD) Pedigree

Born: Abt 1588 Place: Of Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Christened: 1588 Place:
Died: 1618 Place: Felden, Herts, Engl
Buried: 9 Feb 1618/1619 Place: Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Married: 29 Jun 1615 Place: Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

Father:
Mother:

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Wife's Name
Jone Joanna ORD (AFN:Z7FN-SP) Pedigree

Born: About 1600 Place: Of H. Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: 23 Dec 1676 Place: Flamstead, Hertfordshire
Buried: 23 Dec 1696 Place: Felden, Herts, Engl
Married: 29 Jun 1615 Place: Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

Father:
Mother:

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Children

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1. Sex Name
M Jeremie Or Jeremiah KNIGHT (AFN:1QB5-XKL) Pedigree

Born: 1617 Place:
Christened: 20 Apr 1617 Place: St Marys, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Died: Place: Felden, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl
Buried: 19 Mar 1668/1669 Place: St Mary's, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, Engl

could she have been christened Sarah Ann - unfortunately there are two to choose from -


Births Mar 1855 (>99%)
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Knight Sarah Ann Hitchin 3a 212


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Births Dec 1855 (>99%)
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Knight Sarah Ann Hitchin 3a 205

or related to Philip Knight's wife ?


Marriages Mar 1839 (>99%)
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>>>>>FISHER Emma Hitchin 6 581
HAWKS Samuel Hitchin 6 581
HOLLINGSWORTH Mary Hitchin 6 581
>>>>>KNIGHT Philip Hitchin 6 581




Births Jun 1854 (99%)
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Fisher Mary Ann Hitchin 3a 235

Ann of GG, it could be if I ever get that far back!!

And Choccy thatswhat fresh eyes can do, I hadn't thought of Ann as being a middle name! I have wondered about a conection to Emma but hadn't followed it up in any way

I'm afraid I need to get of to bed as I'm at work in 6 hours, I hadn't realised it would take so long to type my question..........sorry book.
I'll pop back while I'm having my morning cuppa
Thank you for what you have done already
Patricia

I am going to follow up later today your 3 suggestions Choccy and see if I can either find them in the 61 census or kill them off before '61, if I can then they are not my Annie

Could this be a 'possible' ??

Name: Mary Ann Wyman
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Jul 1858
Baptism/Christening Place: Codicote, Hertford, England

Father's Name: Charles Wyman
Mother's Name: Hannah Wyman

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01760-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1537788
Reference Number: item 6 p 52
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Dea x

This would be Philip?

Name: Philip Knight
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Jun 1815
Baptism/Christening Place: Codicote, Hertford, England

Race: Father's Name: James Knight
Mother's Name: Sophia Knight

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01760-6
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1537788
Reference Number: item 5 p 6
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
................

He had a sister called Aney (Hannah, Anne, annie etc are all interchangeable):

Name: Aney Knight
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Jun 1822
Baptism/Christening Place: CODICOTE,HERTFORD,ENGLAND

Father's Name: James Knight
Mother's Name: Sophia

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C14523-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 1042052
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

I will see if I can find anything more...

Dea x

Well, sister Annie (Aney) ?? is not with her mother Sophia on 1841 or 1851 and I can't trace her just at the moment.

Perhaps someone else may be able to see her?

Will keep looking.

Dea x

Dea, thank you for those,

you are following my train of thought now. I have followed Choccy's suggestions and found them with parents so have more or less ruled them out.
I went on the IGI and found a baptism for a Hannah Knight 15 June 1856, mother Sophia Knight, no father - Birth June 1856 Hitchin 3a 206.
Found a Sophia [bap12 Feb 1826 Codicote] parents James & Sophia Knight I would guess she would be the sister of Philip.
Couldn't find Sophia on the 1861, but did find a death - Dec 1859, Hitchin, 3a, 151. I would guess after Sophia died Philip took Hannah/Annie in as thier own [can't find any children for them]
Think I found Sophia on the 1851 HO107 1710 folio555, page 1 [sorry this work pc is very limited to what we can actually do on it so can't c&p!!!] but I can't see who she works for!
Seems possible don't you think?
Patricia:)

Oh - I'm glad you are back Patricia. !!

One thing that REALLY bothers me is John + Annie's marriage cert from 1875 which gives her father as Charles Wyman [Batchelor].

This is extremely unusual !!! I have never seen marital status on there for a parent, only occupation???

Could it by any stretch of the imagination be 'Butcher'?? - If so, I think we are getting somewhere??

Thanks,

Dea x

whooshhhhhhh and I was gone, but sneaked a quick look in case!! LOL

I will look at the cert again when I get home in a couple of hours, but I am sure it said Batchlor as I can remember my oh saying "Who do you think he is......... landed gentry!" LOL

Patricia:)

O.K. Patricia,

I will keep 'chasing it around' until you come back to me.

Dea x

Dea, how can I put a very red face on here??????????

We had a look at the 1875 wedding cert again, and thought you could be right, but we scanned it in so we could enlarge it............hmmm it does look like Butcher! how did you come up with that Dea??

In my defence it does look very similar to the word Batchlor next to the grooms name [LOL Just realised it should be spelt Bachelor in any case!!] If only the cert I had wasn't a photocopy of the certificate it would have been larger as it is it is about 3/4 of the size of the page I may have noticed at the time

I'm so, so sorry folks for getting that wrong, I'll go to the naughty step........
Patricia:)

No naughty step needed Patricia - It could happen to anyone.

I still haven't 'sorted' it' but think I have a definite lead to the father.

Sorry - I am too tired to post now but will give you the details tomorrow.

Dea x

Ah I think I can see where you are coming from Dea with the possible butcher link, I am looking into that.

I have ordered the birth cert for Hannah Knight 1856 and see what that shows

Thanks

The birth cert for Hannah Knight has arrived, she is the daughter of Sophia Knight, no father named unfortunately, but I do feel as though I have followed the right person now.
And if the death of the Sophia Knight in 1859 is her mother then I can see why she went to her Uncle
Patricia:)