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It is difficult to find out the truth, I noticed the 1891 census the Barling children are all down as children rather then step children, maybe when they were taking the details they did'nt bother to go into details of the last childs paternity as they are also all born Hackney which is not true either....bit slap dash I think

I will have a look at the baptisms in a minute see what I can see

jax

Interesting that Henry is listed as a Barling in 1891 when they were living with John Gilbert - surely if Henry was his own son (from a previous marriage or with Susan) he would have given the boy his own name? Or perhaps the census enumerators just put their "ditto" mark anyway?

Not sure how much further I am going to get with this, so just wanted to say a big thankyou for all your help with this.

Gai

Hi Jax - I think that is quite likely him in 1901. The occupation would fit very well. There are a couple of possible marriges in 1892 Mile End and 1895 Hackney - and of course Susan was on her own by then.

The baptism of the Henry Gilbert you found had parents John (a life assurance agent I think it says) and Ellen. There is a marriage of a John Gilbert and Ellen prior to 1891 in Bethnal Green - and a death for Ellen Gilbert in 1889 also Bethnal Green - but I'm not sure about the occupation. This would also mean that Susan "kept" Henry as her own - possible I would think but not sure how likely. I do get a bit carried away sometimes!

There are no other likely baptisms that I can find for Henry Gilbert or Henry Barling - the St Saviours one I suggested earlier is not him.

wonder if this is John Gilbert in 1901

1901 census - household transcription
Person: GILBERT, John
Address: 41, Rushton Street, Shoreditch



census search results 1901 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

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GILBERT, John Head Married M 51 1850 Plumber
Hackney
London VIEW
GILBERT, Annie Wife Married F 50 1851
Spitalfields
London VIEW

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I was just checking the baptisms thought it was my laptop that was playing up...Not sure with the ages then again were they sure when they were born??

jax

Mmm - I missed that one! Better area I think especially if they were in Hoxton/Shoreditch. Age would still be right in the census wouldn't it? - ie. 8 in 1891 ?? All of her other children were baptised - I will have a look to see if I can find that one. Ancestry site really slow and playing up on my laptop just now!

Gai

what about this one??

Births Sep 1884 (>99%)
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GILBERT Henry James Poplar 1c 636

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This is the best bet I can find for Henry. Do you think given the areas(Whitechapel, Bethnal Green, Hackney, Islington) that this is feasible? It seems the wrong side of the river to me!

Births Mar 1883 (>99%)
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Barling Frank E Ashford 2a 808
Barling Henry George St Saviour 1d 100 <<<<<<
Barling Norman Garnet Lambeth 1d 541
Barling Richard Thomas Greenwich 1d 1064
Barling William Thomas Croydon 2a 218

No I could'nt find them on ancestry so I did'nt try on FMP...silly really because thats where I got 1901 and 1911 from...all sorted now anyway

jax

Thank you both.

I found the 1891 eventually on here but I cannot get it to come up at all on Ancestry!

I think that is Lydia in 1881 too - well done!

So, probably not going to solve the puzzle of Henry. Strange there is no birth record though!

Another wall tumbling down if not entirely smashed!

Gai

think this could be Lydia in 1881 -

1881

BALKWILL, Catherine Matron Head Single F 37 1844 Matron
Plymouth
Devon VIEW
JOHNSON, Euphemia Widow F 57 1824 Nurse
Scotland VIEW
WAGNELL, Amy Single F 50 1831 Nurse
VIEW
CARTER, Eleanor H Single F 28 1853 Nurse
Bath
Somerset VIEW
GRIFFIN, Kathleen Single F 22 1859 Nurse
Dublin
Ireland VIEW
SPENCER, Elizabeth Single F 41 1840 Nurse
Oxford
Oxfordshire VIEW
WATSON, Henry Married M 56 1825 House Porter
Southwark
Surrey VIEW
WATSON, Elizabeth Married F 50 1831 Cook
Peckham
Surrey VIEW
WATSON, Mary Ann Single F 15 1866 Scullery Maid
Bermondsey
Surrey VIEW
HOLLOWELL, Mary Jane Single F 40 1841 Cook
Rotherhithe
Surrey VIEW
HOLLOWELL, Elizabeth C Single F 17 1864 Housemaid
Rotherhithe
Surrey VIEW
NEROSS, Jane Single F 33 1848 Scrubber (Dom Serv)
Brighton
Sussex VIEW
OSBORN, William Single M 14 1867 Scrubber (Dom Serv)
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW
HUNT, James Married F 43 1838 Middx
Shoreditch
Middlesex VIEW
HARROW, Robert Married M 39 1842 In Gas Factory
Shoreditch
Middlesex VIEW
MISHLEFRA, Richard Single M 24 1857 Cook
? Land
Africa VIEW
HUSSELL, George Married M 59 1822 Labourer In Gas Factory
Ramsgate
Kent VIEW
ONION, Joseph Married M 49 1832 Bricklayer
Shoreditch
Middlesex VIEW
WREN, Silas Single M 16 1865 Slipper Maker
Basingstoke
Hampshire VIEW
BIGGS, Emily Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Monmouth
Monmouthshire
Wales VIEW
KECINE, Margaret Married F 32 1849 Dressmaker
Finsbury
Middlesex VIEW
GAUSON, Ann Single F 17 1864 Domestic Servant
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SIMAS, Ann Single F 38 1843 Hawker
Bermondsey
Surrey VIEW
MARRIOT, Mary Meade Married F 28 1853 Housekeeper (Domestic)
Northampton
Northamptonshire VIEW
BURTON, Matilda Single F 14 1867 Match Box Maker
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
HANSEN, Elizabeth Widow F 37 1844 Charwoman
Cripplegate
Middlesex VIEW
RICKETS, Esther Single F 13 1868 Scholar
Imbecile Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
COHEN, Rosa Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Whitechapel
Middlesex VIEW
COLE, Emma Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Peckham
Surrey VIEW
COLINSON, Henry Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Camberwell
Surrey VIEW
PROSSER, James Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
ASHBY, Herbert Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW
MACKAY, Elizabeth Single F 1 1880
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
SHAW, Alfred Single M 3 1878
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW
GODDARD, Alfred Single M 2 1879
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW
FLAUMAS, Charles Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Whitechapel
Middlesex VIEW
ALDERCROFT, Arthur Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Homerton
Middlesex VIEW
>>>>>>>>BURLING, Lydia Single F 3 1878
Bethnal Green
Middlesex VIEW <<<<<<<<<<<
THOMPSON, Frederick Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Lambeth
Surrey VIEW

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
410 Folio:
83 Page:
42

Registration District:
Bethnal Green Sub District:
Hackney Road Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Bethnal Green Municipal Borough:
Address:
40 39 & 35 Mildmay Med Mission Hosp, Turville St, Bethnal Green County:
Middlesex

Why I was searching on ance*try looking for the family I dont know... Just put florence in on FMP and found it straight away but I know I came accross the name Gilbert somewhere. I doubt she married him as she went back to Barling in 1901

jax

well done Gai I thought that would be the case sure I looked at the Gilbert one??? obviously not good enough

jax

Found them in 1891 !!!

48 Taplow Street, Shoreditch. Susan is now Susan Gilbert (but I cannot find a marriage). She is with John Gilbert, a gas fitter and Florence, William, Albert, Arthur and Henry (aged 8) - all listed as BARLING.

Still need help with finding Lydia please?

Gai

To re-cap please:

Lydia BARLING b 1877 - d 1889 Where is she in 1881 census? - she is not with parents and siblings.

Where are the BARLING's in 1891? I suspect this is a name easily mistranscribed but I have drawn a blank.

Who is Henry Barling born 1883 - 4 years after John Barling died?

I believe the 1871, 1901 and 1911 census shown above are correct.

Thanks for your help last night.

Since John William Barling died in 1879, it is quite possible that Henry is not his and actually has a different name as you suggest. There are a couple of Henry Burgess (Susan's maiden name) born 1882/83 but none in Bethnal Green. We really need to find that 1891 census.

The marriage you came across in 1887 is her daughter Susan. I have that.

I am certain that I have come across the Haberdasher Street address (1901) in my searches but cannot remember where from. It may be from a Barling that I discounted but could be another part of John's family. I shall have another look.

I have also noticed that in the 1881 census, the ages of the children are ALL approx 2 years out - they all seem to be recorded younger than they actually are. Any ideas as to why that might be?

maybe not

1901 census - household transcription
Person: BARLING, Susan
Address: 2, Haberdasher Street, Shoreditch


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BARLING, Arthur Son Single M 25 1876 Silver Polisher
Bethnal Green VIEW
BARLING, Susan Mother Widow F 59 1842
Shoreditch VIEW
BARLING, H Son Single M 18 1883 Entering Clerk
Bethnal Green VIEW

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records Help & Advice 1911 census - household transcription
Person: BARLING, Susan
Address: 18 Queen's Head St Islington N


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BARLING, Henry James Son Single M 28 1883 General Clerk Middlesex London VIEW
BARLING, Susan Mother Widow F 68 1843 Middlesex London VIEW

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Not sure if this is them or who Henry is as I cannot see a birth in the name of Barling in 1883 so could be under a different name in 1891

I am looking could susan have re-married I did see a marriage in 1886 which could be her

jax

Ah - then this really does look like the family. How fantastic! I would have never thought to look for Barley. Thank you so much, Is it possible to find Susan and her family in 1891 and 1901? Or even Lydia in 1881 ?

Gai

Yes it does look like susan

Just looked on FMP and Myna is'nt listed it does look like she has sort of been crossed out

jax