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Hi, I will take your advice and get MC for Mary and Patrick and see where that leads me.
Thanks for all help.

Julie...Unfortunately with genealogy you may need to take the plunge somewhere along the line and buy certs which may not be " Your Couple" however given the details you supplied and what has been found relative to those details I would suggest that the name on the BC/MC may have been written incorrectly... its nothing unusual....

The problem is, on the lancs BMD the only Mary married to a Patrick is surname Rose and on Nicholas birth cert her name is either Rouse or Rousey.

I thinks Eringobragh is right, before you can trace Patrick's ancestry you need their marriage certificate - there are just to many Patrick Sullivan's around to trace it without more information. Even trying to find him in the Wigan area prior to his marriage is inconclusive.

One thing, Patrick didn't die of an accident in the mines according to the Durham museum register of mining deaths.

Thanks for all help.
Mac, I have now found Nic Sullivan on 1871 census, incorrect spelling on form, should have thought of that before now.

Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
Sullivan Mary Ann 57 Wigan 8c 15 ??

I know age doesn't quite tie up, but she was the only Mary Sullivan around Wigan on the 1891 census.

This could be Mary Ann with son John in 1891:

Mary Sullivan [Mary A on original, widow]
Age 52
Estimated Year of Birth 1839
Relationship to Head of Household Mother
Occupation Living On Her Own Means
Address 2, Banks Street
District Wigan, Wigan
Parish Wigan
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Wigan
Birth County Lancashire
Household members:
John Sullivan 32 Colliers labourer born Durham Newcastle u Tyne
Mary 31 b Wigan
Thomas 9 Wigan
Mary A 6 United States
Catherine 3 Wigan
Ellen 1 Wigan
Thos McHugh 29 boarder collier Wigan
Joseph Barnett 28 boarder collier Wigan

Nicholas is also on the 1891 census still in Wigan with wife & family

Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
SULLIVAN John Easington 10a 300 ??

Births Sep 1860 (>99%)
SULLIVAN Nicholas Tynemouth 10b 171

Births Sep 1862 (>99%)
SULLIVAN Thomas Tynemouth 10b 133

Deaths Sep 1864 (>99%)
Sullivan Patrick Tynemouth 10b 91 ??

Julie...Before you think about searching for a Patrick Sullivan some where in Ireland b abt 1836 (?'26) you need to ensure that you have the correct family and have MC for Patrick and Mary...
Irish Records for the above time period are pre Civil Reg and therefore you would be after searching Church Records but first...
I would suggest you try and locate Patrick in the Wigan area pre 1857 he may be there with his family.
There are certainly Sullivan's from 1850 according to BMDs

Julie...Just in case you haven't this ....

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1887
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference

SULLIVAN Nicholas BOOTH Mary Alice Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended

Julie...obviously thread crossed with above from mac..so there's Mary and family already back in Wigan

Cheers for that, I will have anothe look to see if i can find again in 71 census.
Got to go for now

Julie....Patrick and Mary (msn) Rose according to the Marriage at Wigan 1857...
I would be after getting that which will give you details of respective fathers..addresses at time of marriage etc.
Given that "Nicholas" is not a common Christian name with a "Sullivan" surname then you need try to use that as a tool to locate the family on the Census...

1871:

Nicholas Sulivan
Age 10
Estimated Year of Birth 1861
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Address Back Of Union Street
District Wigan, Wigan
Parish Wigan
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Northumberland
Birth County Northumberland
Other family:
Mary Ann 37 Fish Hawker (married) born Wigan
John 12 born Durham
Thomas 8 b Northumberland
Mary Needham (? difficult to read) 68 mother Hawker born Ireland

Would have liked to have found their parents though, but because Mary seems to have so many variations on her surname it's almost impossible. Also, Pat was born in Ireland and i am struggling to find any good Irish BMD website. Do you know of any.

Not really too much of a blank Julie! You have them 1861 and 1881 plus their marriage, so not bad I'd say. But I agree, can't see them 1871.
Jan

Thats the problem. I can't find a trace of any of them in the 1871 census. Mary and Nicholas are on the 81 census, she is widowed then. I e-mailed North Tyneside Registrars (I think that's the address, it's on my work e-mail which I don't have access to today).
I am drawing a real blank with side of the family.

Julie...There are 2 deaths for a Patrick Sullivan reg.on Free BMD...

Patrick Sullivan Sept.1864 Tynemouth
Patrick Sullivan March 1865 Ncle.

Either may be your Patrick ..of the 2 the Reg District for "Backworth" would be Tynemouth but thats not excluding the fact a person may have died elsewhere to last known address..

The 1871 Census for Mary and Nicholas should show if she was already widowed and where she was living....

How did you get the Birth Cert details from Durham..."Nicholas" is stated as b.Backworth which is and always has been Nth'land

Thanks all for this. According to Durham Registry office maiden name on Nicholas' birth cert is Rousey. I am really struggling to get any futher back with either Patrick or Mary. Cannot find either birth or Patricks death.

Julie...Patrick is deceased and Mary back with Nicholas in Wigan..


Mary A. SULLIVAN Head W Female 44 Wigan, Lancashire, England House Keeper
Nicholas SULLIVAN Son U Male 21 Northumberland, England Labourer


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Source Information:
Dwelling 2 Rigby Yard
Census Place Wigan, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341900
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3764 / 46
Page Number 35