Find Ancestors

Thank you Glitte rBaby, RutlandBelle & Choccy.
I could have mixed two families & also found the death of Mary Emily. I understood from my parents that Mary Elizabeth was the mother but as you said Choccy Mary E is missing from the 1891 census.
The only thing I can do is check at the records office but at least I can take your results with me and try and make sense of it all.
I thought my Smiths confusing. Ancestors - who'd have em!
Ria x

is this your Springthorpe family in 1911

Parish: Alfreton Enum. District: 12

Address: 26 Market St Ironville Alfreton
County: Derbyshire

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SPRINGTHORPE, John Hry Head Married M 48 1863 Iron Founder Moulder Ironville Bilston Staffordshire

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SPRINGTHORPE, Elizabeth G Wife Married
22 years F 43 1868 Northamptonshire

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SPRINGTHORP, William Hry Son Married M 22 1889 Iron Worker At Shear Codnor Park Derbys

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SPRINGTHORPE, Sarah Ann Daughter Single F 19 1892 Codnor Park Derbys

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SPRINGTHORPE, Charler H Son Single M 13 1898 Codnor Park Derbys

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SPRINGTHORPE, Dorothy Daughter Single F 8 1903 Codnor Park Derbys

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SPRINGTHORPE, Folrice Daughter Single F 4 1907 Codnor Park Derbys

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SPRINGTHORPE, Gladis Daughter F 2 1909 Codnor Park Derbys

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8 children 3 died

1901

BRUDENELL, Joseph Head Married M 58 1843 Fitter's Labourer
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Mary A Wife Married F 55 1846
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Charles Son Single M 21 1880 Blacksmith's Striker
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Frederick Son Single M 17 1884 Bricklayer's Labourer
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
PYWELL, Alice Niece F 11 1890
Old Fletton Peterboro
Huntingdonshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3233 Folio:
98 Page:
21

Registration District:
Belper Sub District:
Alfreton Enumeration District:
13 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Ironville Christchurch

Civil Parish:
Alfreton Municipal Borough:
Address:
23, Market Street, Alfreton, Ironville County:
Derbyshire

1911

BRUDENELL, Mary Ann Head Widow F 65 1846 Warmington Northants VIEW
SHACKLOCK, Sarah Ann Daughter Married
12 years F 33 1878 Ironville Derbyshire VIEW
SHACKLOCK, William Son-In-Law Married M 35 1876 Coal Miner Hewer Swanick Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Frederick Son Single M 27 1884 Coal Proter Carter Ironville Derbyshire VIEW
GAY, George Lodger Single M 26 1885 Mill Hand Iron Mill Norwich Norfolk VIEW
PYNE, Alfred George Lodger Single M 19 1892 Apprentice Truck Building Exmouth Devon VIEW
SHACKLOCK, Doris Granddaughter F 12 1899 School Ironville Derbyshire VIEW
SHACKLOCK, Horace Grandson M 9 1902 Jacksdale Notts VIEW
SHACKLOCK, Harry Grandson M 2 1909 Ironville Derbyshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
21000 Reference:
RG14PN21000 RG78PN1252 RD436 SD5 ED12 SN275

Registration District:
Belper Sub District:
Alfreton Enumeration District:
12 Parish:
Alfreton

Address:
23 Market St Ironville Alfreton County:
Derbyshire


married 45 years
12 children born, 6 have died

this birth may refer to the Mary Elizabeth born Warminton, Northants who is Mary E Springthorpe in 1891


Births Jun 1868
Brudenell Mary Elizabeth Oundle 3b 214

Warminton is in Oundle reg district

Elizabeth on the 1881 census is 'probably' the one who married John Springthorpe. She appears to be Mary E on the 1871 census.

births of Mary Emily and Sarah Ann Brudenell



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Births Sep 1877 (>99%)
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BRUDNELL Mary Emily Belper 7b 576
BRUDNELL Sarah Ann Belper 7b 576



death of Mary Emily - she is not on the 1891 census -


Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
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Brudenell Mary Emily 7 Belper 7b 378

are these 2 different families do you think?

Wow
It will take me a little time to check all the posts, really appreciate all your help everyone.
Thank you.
Ria x

Edit....... (lol) It looks like another trip to Matlock Records office.

I'm confused too!

1871 and Mary E Brudenall has same birth place as Mary E Springthorpe in 1891

Name: Mary E Brudenell
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Berry Brudenell
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Brudenell
Gender: Female
Where born: Warmington, Northamptonshire, England
Civil parish: Warmington
Town: Warmington
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Registration district: Oundle
Sub-registration district: Fotheringhay
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
Berry Brudenell 32
Mary Ann Brudenell 27
Job Brudenell 22
Charles Brudenell 7
Esther Brudenell 5
Mary E Brudenell 3
William Brudenell 2 Months
Henry Brudenell 2 Months

posting for reference -

1881

BRUDENALL, Joseph Head Married M 39 1842 Labourer Ironworks
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Mary A Wife Married F 36 1845
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Esther Daughter Single F 15 1866
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, William Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Mary E Daughter Single F 3 1878
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Sarah A Daughter Single F 3 1878
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Charles Son Single M 1 1880
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, John Brother Single M 23 1858 Labourer Ironworks
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENALL, Jose Brother Single M 20 1861 Labourer Ironworks
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
3418 Folio:
14 Page:
19

Registration District:
Belper Sub District:
Alfreton Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Alfreton Municipal Borough:
Address:
23, Market St, Alfreton County:
Derbyshire




1891

BRUDENELL, Joseph Head Married M 49 1842 Iron Labourer
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Mary A Wife Married F 47 1844
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, William H Son Single M 16 1875 Apprentice To Blacksmith
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Sarah A Daughter Single F 13 1878 Scholar
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Charles Son Single M 11 1880 Scholar
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Frederick Son Single M 7 1884 Scholar
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
BRUDENELL, Alfred Son Single M 0 (6M) 1891
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
SPRINGTHORPE, John Lodger Married M 31 1860 Iron Worker
Bieston
Staffordshire VIEW
SPRINGTHORPE, Mary E Lodger Married F 22 1869
Warmington
Northamptonshire VIEW
SPRINGTHORPE, William Lodger Single M 2 1889
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW
SPRINGTHORPE, Frederick Lodger Single M 0 (9M) 1891
Ironville
Derbyshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2749 Folio:
106 Page:
46

Registration District:
Belper Sub District:
Alfreton Enumeration District:
11 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Ironville

Civil Parish:
Alfreton Municipal Borough:
Address:
23, Market Place, Alfreton, Ironville County:
Derbyshire

1891 ?
Name: Mary E Springthorpe
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Warmington, Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: Alfreton
Ecclesiastical parish: Ironville
Town: Ironville
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Alfreton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Brudenell 49 - Warmington
Mary A Brudenell 47
William H Brudenell 16
Sarah A Brudenell 13
Charles Brudenell 16
Frederick Brudenell 7
Alfred Brudenell 5/12
John Springthorpe 31 -Bilston
Mary E Springthorpe 22
William Springthorpe 2
Frederick Springthorpe 9/12


John and Mary are listed as lodgers

Ria I have looked at the image for 1881 and the ages that you have are correct

Name: Mary E. Brudenall
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Brudenall
Mother's Name: Mary A. Brudenall
Gender: Female
Where born: Ironville, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Alfreton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Market St
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Alfreton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Brudenall 39
Mary A. Brudenall 36
Esther Brudenall 15
Elizabeth Brudenall 12
William Brudenall 6
Mary E. Brudenall 3
Sarah A. Brudenall 3
Charles Brudenall 1
John Brudenall 23
Jose Brudenall 20

This is a bit long winded but I have tried to give you as much information as I can. Here goes: -
My Grandmother is Sarah Ann Springthorpe born 1891 Ironville.
Her mother was Mary Elizabeth Brudenall (name can also be Brudenell). She had a twin sister Sarah Ann.
Mary Elizabeth Brudenall was born in Ironville (1868 or so I thought) and married John Henry Springthorpe in 1888.
This is the census for 1901: - Showing Mary Elizabeth married to John Springthorpe with my Grandmother Sarah Ann - aged 9.
John Springthorpe
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary E
Gender: Male
Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Alfreton
Ecclesiastical parish: Ironville Christchurch
Town: Ironville
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: 23 Queen Street, Ironville.
Occupation: Mill Furnance Man
Condition as to marriage: married
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Cartwright 42 Lodger - Labourer from Derbyshire
George Gamp 17 Lodger - Labourer from Norwich Norfolk.
Charles A Springthorpe 3
John Springthorpe 39
Mary E Springthorpe 33
Sarah A Springthorpe 9
Wiliam H Springthorpe 12
These dates tie in with my dates.
The 1881 census (family search.org) (which I know is not 100%) but I don't have access to other history sites shows Mary E Brudenall - 3 years old with her twin sister Sarah Ann, which means that the twins were born in 1878.
I found a marriage of John & Mary in 1888. (which means she was 10) Her first child was born in 1889 - second 1890 and my GM in 1891.
This could be quite an eye opener or has the census got it wrong???
I can only find births for Mary & Sarah in 1878 as well so I am really confused.
The 1881 census:-
Joseph BRUDENALL Head M Male 39 Warmington, Northampton, England Labourer Ironworks
Mary A. BRUDENALL Wife M Female 36 Warmington, Northampton, England
Esther BRUDENALL Daur Female 15 Warmington, Northampton, England
Elizabeth BRUDENALL Daur Female 12 Warmington, Northampton, England Scholar
William BRUDENALL Son Male 6 Warmington, Northampton, England Scholar
Mary E. BRUDENALL Daur Female 3 Ironville, Derby, England
Sarah A. BRUDENALL Daur Female 3 Ironville, Derby, England
Charles BRUDENALL Son Male 1 Ironville, Derby, England
John BRUDENALL Brother U Male 23 Warmington, Northampton, England Labourer Ironworks
Jose BRUDENALL Brother U Male 20 Warmington, Northampton, England Labourer Ironworks
A fresh pair of eyes in definitely needed - Perhaps if someone wouldn't mind checking the 1881 census on another site or 1891 census too if that is not too much to ask please?
At the moment I have no idea what is happening and sometimes you begin to doubt the information that you know is true.
Your help will definitely be appreciated as I have deleted all my Brudenalls(Brudenells), until this is sorted out. What do you think?
Thank you
Ria x