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I can rule out that my Ellen wasn't Ellen Marion White with parents John James White and Maria Jane White that Chris Ho:) refers to with the Baptism record, as she appears with her mother, 2 brothers and 1 sister in the 1901 census living at 23 Aynhoe Road, Hammersmith.

I dont know if I am confusing things! Could Ellen have been born before her parents married and her birth year changed to hide the embarrassment


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about John Frederick White CARMAN
Name: John Frederick White
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Laight
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 30 Jun 1873
Parish: St John, Walham Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Father Name: John White
Spouse Father Name: James Laight


1881 England Census
about John F. White
Name: John F. White
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A. White
Gender: Male
Where born: Kensington, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Margaret
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 29 Raphael St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Carman

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St Margaret Westminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John F. White 33
Mary A. White 26
Jane White 7
Rebecca White 6
Annie White 2

Lots of info to go through here although I can answer a couple of things that have been bought up here.

Glitter Baby is right that Henry Simkins and his wife Frances (nee Price) were witnesses to Ellens marriage to Henry Price. Frances was Henry's older sister.

Prickly Holly highlights the census with Ellen being born in Blackheath, Kent in 1872/3 with her mothers name Matilda and a younger sister Sarah, I don't think that Matilda White and her daughter Sarah E White were "The Mary's" in my 1901 census with Ellen as they appear in the 1901 census under their own names and still living at 13 Lyvenden Road, Greenwich.

I will look into the Baptism for Ellen Marion White in 1876 and the birth certificate in 1875.

Thank you all for so much information this afternoon.

I think we were put off the trail by the "Mother in Law" in the 1901 census!

Could this be your Matilda and her daughter Sarah??

It fits with 1891 census i posted earlier..........


1901 England Census
about Matilda White
Name: Matilda White
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Westminster, London, England

Civil parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 264
Household Members:
Name Age
Matilda White 59 (Widow)
Sarah E White 26

I cant pin point Matilda in 1911 and so Possibly ???

Deaths Mar 1909 (>99%
WHITE Matilda Ann 65 Greenwich 1d 777

Good thinking patchem!

I agree about the birth date (partly because I have not yet found Henry Price from Southwark born in 1873 in 1881 or 1891 (but only a quick look))

Added, found his birth,(Father a sweep) so 1873 is accurate for him.

Also remember, mother-in-law could have been his stepmother:
mother-in-law Look up mother-in-law at Dictionary.com
mid-15c., "mother of one's spouse," from mother + in-law. Also in early use, "stepmother."

I would not discout that 1872 christening for Ellen.

If she had gone with the birthdate of 1872 she would have been older than her husband, it is very possible that she knocked a few years off her age to appear younger than him ? Very common in those times !

Dea x

As Schnickelfritz says, there are no Mealdings at all anywhere in free bmd. Have been trying Melding, Wealding etc but no joy. It is clearly Mealding in 1901, so trying to guess what enumerator was writing down, mistake on his part, or deliberate cover up?

Have you got Henry Price, 1873, in 1911?
Thanks

If Mary Mealding in the 1901 census is Ellens mother (and you are right, there does not appear to be a Matilda white marriage to a Mealding) It is also odd that she has a daughter Mary...........who does not show in previous census.
I wonder if daughter Mary is actually Sarah who appears on the 1891 census and for some reason they needed to hide their real names!

Name: Henry Simkins - Tabard St
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Spouse Name: Frances Price
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 11 Apr 1887
Parish: All Saints, Newington
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Henry Simkins
Spouse Father Name: John Price


I think this is the couple that are witnessess on Ellens marriage cert but it looks like they might have been neighbours and not related

Have you got this birth cert?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ellen White
Name: Ellen White
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Lambeth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 413 (click to see others on page)

Hello Prickly Holly,
The 1901 census has been my starting point for a long while in looking for Ellens mother and sister but I'm almost sure the surname Mealding was not their real surname. A correction had been made to the census entry by one person from Ancestry.com who assumed that Ellen's maiden name was Mealding (because of the Mary's being listed as Mealding) but that is not the case, her maiden name on her Marriage Certificate was White. While it is quite possible Ellens mother did marry again the surname Mealding doesn't appear in the BMD's.

Hello Ginny,
I did see this entry for Ellen in the London, England Birth and Baptisms and I can tell you it set my heart a flutter until I realised it was in 1872. According to Ellens Marriage Certificate she was 19 in 1894 which gives an approx. birthdate of 1875 and on her Death Certificate she was 27 in 1903 which puts her birthdate approx. 1876.

Thank you both for your kind help

Name: Ellen Marion White
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1876
Baptism Date: 25 Apr 1876
Father's Name: John James White (Coachman)
Mother's Name: Maria Jane White
Parish or Poor Law Union: Clapham Christ Church
Borough: Lambeth

(birthdate given 21st Nov. 1875)

1881 England Census
about Ellen White
Name: Ellen White
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Matilda White
Gender: Female
Where born: Blackheath, Kent, England

Civil parish: Greenwich
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 13 Lyvendale Rd Lyvenden
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
Household Members:
Name Age
Matilda White 42 (Widow)
George White 13
Ellen White 9
Sarah White 6



1891 England Census
about Ellen White
Name: Ellen White
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Parent's Name: Matilda White
Gender: Female
Where born: Blackheath, Kent, England

Civil parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Matilda White 46
George White 13
Ellen White 18
Sarah White 15

A tree on Ancestry has the same details as you have and it also has her mother as being Mary?

Her death is listed as this one:


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Ellen Price
Name: Ellen Price
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 27
District: Southwark(1901 Onw)
County: Greater London, London
Volume: 1d
Page: 24

1871
WHITE, John Head M 37 1834 Essex (Carman)
WHITE, Matilda Ann Wife F 31 1840 Middlesex
WHITE, George Son M 3 1868 Kent VIEW
LIGHTFOOT, Alice Niece F 14 1857 Essex

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
759 Folio:
37 Page:
25

Registration District:
Greenwich Sub District:
Greenwich, East Enumeration District:
14 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Greenwich Municipal Borough:
Address:
Bedford Place, Greenwich County:
London, Kent

(Parents, 1871)

Chris :)

For Ref........


1901 England Census
about Ellen Price
Name: Ellen Price
[Ellen White]
[Ellen Mealding]
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry Price
Mother's Name: Mary Mealding
Gender: Female
Where born: Newington, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Trinity, Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Price 28
Ellen Price 26
Henry Price 5
John Price 3
Mary Mealding 45 (Widow) Mother in Law-- Born London
Mary Mealding 21 Daughter Born London
Rose Davis 40

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Ellen White
Name: Ellen White
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1872
Baptism Date: 28 Jan 1872
Father's Name: John White CARMAN
Mother's Name: Matilda Anne White
Parish or Poor Law Union: Tulse Hill Holy Trinity DEADFORD PLACE?
Borough: Lambeth

I am trying to find the parents of my great grandmother, Ellen White. According to the 1901 census Ellen was born c1875 in Newington, Surrey. She died on 23 September 1903 in Guys Hospital, Newington, Surrey. As far as I know she didn't have a second Christian name.

On 14 May 1894 Ellen married Henry Price at the Church of All Saints, Newington, Surrey and on her marriage certificate her father was recorded as John White (Deceased) and his occupation had been Carman. At the time of her marriage her address was recorded as 52 Ernest Street, Newington (in the Parish Records) and 52 Tabard Street, Newington on the actual Marriage Certificate.

In the 1901 census Ellen is living with her husband Henry Price and her 2 children, Henry and John at 82 Tabard Street, Newington, Surrey. Living with them are two women both named Mary Mealding. The elder "Mary" born in 1856 in London is listed as Mother-in -Law (Ellens Mother) and the younger "Mary" born 1880 and listed as Sister-in-Law. I have researched the name "Mealding" and find that it doesn't exist in any of the Birth, Marriages, Deaths or the 1911 census for either Mary, and have come to the conclusion that this may be a false surname. Of course, they could also be false Christian names too.

As I am researching my family tree from Australia I rely soley on the internet for my information and am unable to go to the records offices to look for these folk myself. Any information on who Ellens parents might be, exactly where Ellen was born or any ideas where to look next would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Christine