Find Ancestors

It is rather highly unlikely that there were two children in the family named Arthur J and John Arthur, respectively, wouldn't you think?

It seems pretty much a sure thing that Arthur J born in 1893 died in infancy or early childhood, and the names were passed on to John Arthur born in 1898.

This would be a good reason why you never heard of that child, who likely died before the family returned to England.

And PricklyHolly already posted the apparent death of Victor in England.

I'm afraid that pursuing a quest for either of these children in 1911 or anywhere else would be a bit of a doomed enterprise.

If you check the information that Astra provided you will see that there were two boys Arthur J and John Arthur. You kindly provided the death date of John Arthur but i have no idea what happened to Arthur J yet. He was not with the other children in the 1911 census

I'm going to try one more time ...


You started out by saying:

"John Arthur b. abt 1899"


Astra posted:

Name: LAST, John A
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1898
Volume: 730
Page: 130



** I had already posted **

Name: John Arthur Last
>>> Birth Date: 16 Oct 1898
>>> Death Registration Month/Year: Oct 1990
Age at death (estimated): 92
Registration district: Tunbridge Wells
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 1991


You now say:

"I will renew my efforts to find Victor and Arthur J"

If by "Arthur J" you mean John Arthur **he died in 1990** and his death certificate may give you information about a family member!!!

I mean, I assume your goal isn't actually just to find out where he was in 1911.

Hmm, PricklyHolly, would you care to share just a tiny bit?

You know how nice it is if people say *what* they have PMed (e.g. "I have PMed the names of John's children") -- so other people don't spend their time researching and sending the same information.

Of course, I assume that's the kind of thing you were PMing and you won't mind telling us. ;)



Jennifer, do you know how many people threaten to cut off their noses to spite their faces by not returning to the forum?

Here's the thing. I spent time finding and providing information for you. Unless you acknowledge it, I have no way of knowing that you actualy saw it. It would be a shame to post information for someone that she never noticed. It does happen, when people aren't familiar with using message boards.

If you don't want to use the boards, or what to heed things people whisper to you, should anyone do that, that's up to you.

I have sent you a PM Jennifer. x

JaneyCanuck I'm sorry if I upset you. I certainly did see the information you sent and I am most grateful. I will indeed be sending for marriage certificates to verify the who was the father of these children. I will also check for children born to any of the marriages found.

Thanks too to Patcham and PricklyHolly for all your help. I will renew my efforts to find Victor and Arthur J, neither of whom were with the other four children in the 1911 census. Perhaps they had not yet arrived from Teheran and were still with their father.

Perhaps now I should bow out of this forum and not return for a while

No, I did not give a possible birth for Lilian, it was a possible death (unfortunately). But there is also later a possible marriage, by pricklyholly, for Lilian. So either could be her death, and the possibilities for Violet without a middle name are many.
Anyway, you need to get one of the children's marriage certificates, at the very least, to find out who the Father is.

I noticed Victor is not with his siblings in 1911..............??

Deaths Sep 1906 (>99%)
LAST Victor Age 2 Dover 2a 671

The district Dover is in the county of Kent.

A possible marriage for Lillian..........

Marriages Dec 1917 (>99%)
Last Lillian M Osborn Colchester 4a 1585
Osborn Albert A Last Colchester 4a 1585


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Lillian May Osborn
Name: Lillian May Osborn
Birth Date: 2 May 1898
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1988
Age at death (estimated): 90
Registration district: Bury St Edmunds
Inferred County: Suffolk
Volume: 10
Page: 2137

You're welcome, I'm sure.

I'll just assume I'm typing in invisible pixels ... la la la ...

The "guys" you thanked earlier on were me. I just haven't noticed you noticing the actual information I searched for and provided, re Helen Gertrude and John Arthur, and then re ordering a certificate ...

Thanks so much Astra. This is brilliant. I knew the father had been in the forces but thought he must have left as I thought he wouldn't have been stationed in the same place for 10 years. I must have been wrong. Or else the mother and children stayed in Teheran while the father travelled around. We think the mother must have died and the father sent the children home. In 1914 Arthur married in Faversham to the sister of his brother-in-law William MILLS. You've also found two children I didn't know about

You didn't say whether you'd searched for marriages of the children, and births of their children, at FreeBMD. I do recommend doing that. It can lead to the names of living family members fairly readily. And it's something you can do as easily as anyone else!

Patchem posted the birth in England of Lilian May, and her birth certificate will give both parents' full names; you order it here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/contact_us.asp

I assume you noticed that I gave you the probable marriage and death of Helen Gertrude, to start with.

In 1891 Arthur is listed on the census as a Sapper in the Royal Engineers

Their births are in the Military births onFind my Past so their father was in the Forces

Forces BMD details
Registration event: Birth


Name: LAST, Helen G
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1895
Volume: 730
Page: 130

Record source: GRO

Armed Forces BMD details
Registration event: Birth


Name: LAST, Arthur J
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1893
Volume: 662
Page: 1

Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)

Armed Forces BMD details
Registration event: Birth


Name: LAST, Lillian M
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1896
Volume: 730
Page: 130

Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)

Forces BMD details
Registration event: Birth


Name: LAST, John A
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1898
Volume: 730
Page: 130

Armed Forces BMD details
Registration event: Birth


Name: LAST, Victor
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1904
Volume: 730
Page: 130

Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)

Armed Forces BMD details
Registration event: Birth


Name: LAST, Violet
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Regiment: Royal Engineers
Place: Teheran
Country: Iran
Year: 1904
Volume: 730
Page: 130

Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)



Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)

?
Lilian May Last
Birth Date: 27 Mar 1897
Death Registration Month/Year: 1975
Registration district: Bishop Stortford
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 10
Page: 0060

Thanks Guys. Yes I have searched here and found one possible connection who I have written to but as yet she has not replied.

Since you don't likely have paid access to Ancestry:

Name: Helen Gertrude Bishop
Birth Date: 29 Feb 1895
Death Registration Month/Year: 1971
Registration district: Dover
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5f
Page: 1049

Name: John Arthur Last
Birth Date: 16 Oct 1898
Death Registration Month/Year: Oct 1990
Age at death (estimated): 92
Registration district: Tunbridge Wells
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 1991

Have you searched for marriages in England/Wales?

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Remember that after 1911 only middle initials are used, e.g. John A Last.

The one obvious one, on a quick search:

Marriages Sep 1924
BISHOP Alvin S Last Paddington 1a 81
LAST Helen G Bishop Paddington 1a 81

You can then search for births with surname Bishop and mother Last (they would be too recent to post here as they may still be living).

You have of course searched trees here for these names?

Hi
I am trying to find any information about the following members of the LAST family. They are Helen Gertrude born abt 1895, Lilain May born abt 1897, John Arthur b. abt 1899 and Violet born about 1905. All the children were born in Teheran, Persia (as it was then) but in the 1911 census were living in Faversham, Kent with their aunt Eliza MILLS, nee LAST. I think they may have been the children of Eliza's brother Arthur but have no idea what happened to them or why their father was living in Persia. Any help would be welcome.

Jennie JAMES
Coromandel, NZ