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Thanks for all your help and advice Lindsey. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner but the GR site has been playing up as you may or may not be aware of.

Akcant :-)

There is nothing positive either as Robert or James Barr,
Margee has already found one , which is the most likely 1901 record until he appears on the 1911

Just as likely he is not married to Margaret.?

Lindsey,

Would you kindly copy the 1901 census for me? Thank you so much, if you can.

Akcant

Lindsey,

Thanks for explaining it to me. Also thanks for a copy of the transcript, much appreciated.

Akcant :-)

1881 Scotland Census about John Barr
Name: John Barr
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margaret Barr
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilwinning, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 599
Registration district: Kilwinning
Civil parish: Kilwinning
County: Ayrshire
Address: 1. & 2 Wellington Row
Occupation: Colliery Manager
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 83
Line: 22
Roll: cssct1881_191
Household Members:
Name Age
John Barr 55
Margaret Barr 54
James Barr 27
John Barr 22
William Barr 17
Robert Barr 14
Elizabeth Barr 9
Margaret Muir 5

what I am saying is John Barr Colliery manager [ the only one with that job on this census] does not appear on the next census,so has likely died
It would be worth looking for a death.

I see it as the old name change game generally when they have something to hide.
But probably the only truth is the fathers job title .

Lindsey,

I'm confused, do you mean Robert Barr died approx. 20 years before James and Grace's marriage? Are you able to copy the transcript for me?

Akcant

oops I deleted by mistake I think the father would have been deceased up to 20 years before the marriage so may have just said Robert , theres only one Colliery manager that fits.
I can only see the transcript for that census butt its eems the most likely

Sorry Margee

I marked it as 'answered' because I'd sent you a PM about the info you kindly provided - I guess that's not what it's for!!!

Akcant

Hi MaureeninNY

Yes it is a bit of a predicament. The witnesses on the marriage certificate for James Barr and Grace (nee Oliver) do not have the names Oliver or Barr. The witnesses are related in some way with the same surname but I can't read it! Maybe E.G. Lodger and Eliz. Lodger - not sure!

Akcant

I have no idea why my post on this thread has been marked as answered, I didn't do it.

Thanks for your info Lindsey, but I'm confused!

The 1881 Census states a John Barr as Manager of a Colliery and a Robert Barr 14 yrs b. 1867.

My Manager of a Colliery is Robert Barr, although I don't know when he was born. His son's name is James Barr b. 1867 not Robert?

Akcant

Oh darn. I see your problem then. I don't suppose any of the witnesses at the wedding are a clue ?

Maureen

Thanks for all the quick replies.

The marriage certificate for James Barr and Grace Oliver states his father as Robert Barr manage of a colliery.

I'm not sure if James Barr was married before marrying Grace Oliver, although at the time of marrying Grace there is a 10 year age gap, if this means anything.

The marriage details and 1911 census details confirm my records.

Robert Oliver on the 1911 Census is indeed Grace Oliver's father.

I hope this helps with some of the queries.

Akcant

Me too, confused that is, I think you need James marriage cert to find his fathers details ?

I'm a little confused. Did you really find Robert Barr on the 1911 census or are you mixing him up with what appears to be Grace's father on the 1911 ?

Maureen

BARR, James Head Married M 44 1867 Motor Attender In Electric Power Station Near Ayr Scotland Resident VIEW
BARR, Grace Wife Married
6 years F 34 1877 Gateshead County Durham VIEW
BARR, James Oliver Son M 5 1906 Gateshead County Durham VIEW
BARR, Robert Oliver Son M 4 1907 Gateshead County Durham VIEW
BARR, William Oliver Son M 2 1909 County Newcastle on Tyne VIEW
OLIVER, Robert Father Widower M 61 1850 Motor Mill Man South Shields County Durham VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
30580 Reference:
RG14PN30580 RG78PN1753 RD558 SD3 ED2 SN132

Registration District:
Newcastle upon Tyne Sub District:
Elswick Enumeration District:
2 Parish:
Elswick

Address:
14 Ord Street Newcastle on Tyne

Possibilities with a father called Robert

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 3
Find more British records by searching on the
updated FamilySearch site. Click here...
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JAMES BARR - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 20 MAR 1869 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
2. JAMES BARR - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 04 JUL 1869 Dalry, Ayr, Scotland
3. JAMES BARR - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 12 MAR 1871 Kilwinning, Ayr, Scotland

Catherine

Was James previously married?
1901 census
50 Rawling Rd., Gateshead, Durham
James H. Barr, head, 33, brewery store keeper
Margaret A., wife, 32
Both born Scotland.

I'm really, really struggling trying to find my ancestors, because the following is all I know - his name is Robert Barr (a millwright/a electric power station attendant on 1911 Census) who I think was born in Scotland.

His son, James Barr, my great grandfather, (a salesman) b. 1867, nr. Ayr, Scotland he married Grace (nee Oliver) b. 1877, Durham, Gateshead. Don't know their dates of death.

They had 3 sons. My grandfather (James Oliver Barr) b. 7 June 1905, 71 Claremont Street, Gateshead, d. November 1990, March, Cambs. The other two - Robert Oliver Barr (4 yrs on 1911 Census) and William Oliver Barr (2 yrs on 1911 Census).

My grandfather married Irene Sleight, b. 15/12/1909, Barnsley, Yorks - d. 25/6/1992 March, Cambs.

Any help regarding my 2 x great grandfather would be deeply appreciated.

Akcant