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glad to have helped pleased Army records and census details have helped you

Hi folks,

Just a quick update.

I am now certain that 'Harry Evans' was part of the family that lived at 6 Spooner Street, Vauxhall, Birmingham and was most likely Lancelot Vere (I have distant memories of my mother mentioning that name). A letter written by his mother Mary to military records from 6 Spooner Street uses 'Harry' as his name, despite there being no 'Harry' in the family. The transcription on the 1891 census shows the incorrect age at 18 - it was in fact 12, although reading it, it becomes understandable why it was transcribed as 18. One document in the military records also refers to the address in Upper Cleminson Street Salford - making a clear link between 'Harry' Evans, Bertha Bentley and the family in Spooner Street Vauxhall.

Jax, I'm not sure where Nottingham fits in - but I think you have located the right Harry Evans - I just can't be sure .... It certainly is consistent with everything else we know about him. Sylvia is certainly correct that I am fortunate the records still exist - I think without them I would have been second guessing at best - I was certainly favouring the other Evans family in Summerdale Pl in the census records. I have certainly got a lot of gaps to fill, although it is good to know I am now on the right track.

My sincere thanks to you all.

Greg

Gregory

ref Jansmith's find of military records. There is also a reference in them to Harry's pay going to an address in Salford (? Cleminson Street)

If you are reluctant to sign up to Ancestry at this time I can let you have the records but you will have to let me have your e mail address.

Vera

Thanks Sylvia, I will have to consider it. I don't like using credit card details in this way .....

May I suggest that you take a 2 week free trial with ancestry?

You have to provide credit card details ..... so be sure to let them know in advance if you do NOT wish to continue, or you will find your card has been charged. I suggest notifying them no later than day 10.


Taking the free trial would enable you to see the war records, AND to download them to your own computer.


You are actually very lucky that the records exist ...... only about 30% of WW1 records survived WW2.





sylvia

Hi Folks,

Thank you all for assisting. I do believe somewhere in what you have found lies an answer - I hadn't seriously looked at Lancelot as an option - but it could be. I have what I can only describe as a feeing that 'Harry' is an adopted name as he didn't like his given name - it may be something my mother said - I just don't know for sure.

She was always quite clear that her father was a 'wood-carver' sometimes referred to as a 'cabinet maker' - that may have been a reference to her grand-father - I don't know.

The wedding certificate is 29th March 1919 between Harry Evans, wood carver of 13, Brownbell Street (I assume Salford) and Bertha Bentley of 39, Upper Cleminson Street, also Salford. Harry's Father is shown as George Evans, a cabinet maker. The church where they married is shown as St Philips Church, Salford. The witnesses were Arthur Thomas and Margaret Thomas.

As far as the death details are concerned, they are in the form of a recepit from Simpson & Son (Salford) Ltd, Funeral Directors. This shows me he is buried on sq 8, plot A No 239 in Weaste Cemetery. The receipt shows that a Harry Evans, 73 was buried in grave 239 of square 8 plot A of Weaste cemetery. Another document from the Burial Board for the City of Salford shows this relates to the Roman Catholic part of the cemetery and is dated 15th April 1952.

Those are the solid facts I have. The rest, including my attempts to pin him down refer to the following census detail:

Piece: RG12/2417 Place: Aston -Warwickshire Enumeration District: 14
Civil Parish: Aston Ecclesiastical Parish: St James
Folio: 115 Page: 11 Schedule: 65
Address: 6 Spooner St

  Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks    EVANS George Head M M 42 Cabinet Maker(Em'ee)  Worcestershire - Worcester      EVANS Mary Wife M F 44   Worcestershire - Inkberrow      EVANS Herbert G Son - M 17 Electro Plater(Em'ee)  Lancashire - Liverpool      EVANS Jessie M Dau - F 15 Shop Asst. Gnral Store(Em'ee)  Warwickshire - Birmingham      EVANS Lancelot N Son - M 18 (Scholar)  Warwickshire - Birmingham      EVANS Charles D Son - M 10 Scholar  Warwickshire - Birmingham      EVANS Emily C Dau - F 9 Scholar  Warwickshire - Birmingham



Piece: RG12/2371 Place: Birmingham -Warwickshire Enumeration District: 26
Civil Parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical Parish: St Marks
Folio: 9 Page: 11 Schedule: 67
Address: 2 Summerdale Pl

  Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks    EVANS George Head M M 48 Cabinet Maker(Em'ee)  London - Lambeth      EVANS Mary Wife M F 49   Worcestershire - Tenbury      EVANS Thomas Son S M 18 Harness Maker(Em'ee)  Warwickshire - Birmingham      EVANS Walter Son S M 16 Groom(Em'ee)  Warwickshire - Birmingham      EVANS Frederick Son - M 13 Errand Boy(Em'ee)  Warwickshire - Birmingham      BATEMAN Louisa Niece S F 17 Brace Maker(Em'ee)  Worcestershire - Worcester

I think Joseph's suggestion that Lancelot Vere might be the culprit is a very worthy suggestion - thank you for making me see what is under my nose!

Interestingly, Jan Smith seems to have found a link in military records on ancestry - now referred to as Harry and with a letter on file by his mother Mary from 6 Spooner St which is the address in one of the census records, it seems to be going some way to resolving my conundrum.

It would be good to see the military records - any idea how that might be possible as I don't have a subscription to Ancestry?

Any other ideas???

Thanks for all your help.

army records on Ancestry
Name: Harry Evans
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Age at enlistment: 34
Birth Parish: Birmingham
Birth County: Warwicks
Document Year: 1914
Regimental Number: 5355
Regiment Name: RAMC
Number of images: 17

born Birmingham age 34 yrs 11mths (as signed 4th sept 1914) single
father George Evans
6 Spooner st Vauxhall Birmingham
There is a letter (1916) signed by his mother Mary asking for info as his letters had been returned

1891 at 6, Spooner Street, Nechells, Birmingham
EVANS, George Head Married M 42 1849 **Cabinet Maker** Worcester
EVANS, Mary Wife Married F 40 1851 Inkberrow
EVANS, Herbert Son M 17 1874 Electro PlaterLiverpool
EVANS, Jessie M Daughter F 15 1876 Shop Assistant General Store Birmingham
EVANS, Lancelot H Son M 12 1879 Scholar Birmingham
EVANS, Charles D Son M 10 1881 Scholar Birmingham
EVANS, Emily C Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar Birmingham

Just to complicate it, how about Lancelot Vere??

1901 at 6, Spooner Street, Aston
EVANS, George Head Married M 52 1849 Cabinet Fitter Worcester
EVANS, Mary Wife Married F 50 1851 Inkberrow Worcestershire
EVANS, Jessie M Daughter Single F 25 1876 Drapers Assistant Birmingham
***EVANS, Lancelot V Son Single M 22 1879 Wood Carver Birmingham
EVANS, Charles D Son Single M 20 1881 Piano Regulator Birmingham
EVANS, Emily C Daughter Single F 19 1882 Electric Meter Tester Birmingham

Births Dec 1878
Evans Lancelot Vere Aston

Not a cabinet maker

1891 census - household transcription
Person: EVANS, Harry
Address: Back 16 Court 2, Hunters Vale, Aston, Aston Manor


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EVANS, George Head Married M 43 1848 Sign Writer
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 45 1846
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Kate Daughter Single F 15 1876 Domestic Servant
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Ernest Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Harry Son M 9 1882 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Christopher Son M 7 1884 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Edward Son M 5 1886 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
EVANS, Eugenia Daughter Single F 18 1873 Domestic Servant
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
same family
1901

census - household transcription
Person: EVANS, Elizabeth
Address: 7, 118, Back Great Hampton Street, Birmingham


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EVANS, Elizabeth Head Widow F 55 1846
Birmingham VIEW
EVANS, Henry Son Single M 20 1881 Silver Polisher
Birmingham VIEW
EVANS, Christopher Son Single M 18 1883 Silver Polisher
Birmingham VIEW
EVANS, Edward Son Single M 15 1886 Silver Polisher
Birmingham VIEW

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If that is him on the 1911 he is a bachelor...He could have also have served in the boer if not found in the 1901

As janey has said father could be made up??

jax

one in 1891 with the right names but wrong occupation


Name: Harry Evans
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's name: George Evans
Mother's name: Rebecca Evans
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

George Evans 42 - brass something
Rebecca Evans 39
William Evans 18
Lilly Evans 15
Florence Evans 15
George Evans 14
Harry Evans 12
Harriett Evans 10
Samuel Evans 6
Mabel Evans 3


It wouldn't be unusual for a son, 30 years later, not to remember what his father's occupation was.

Giving a father one's own occupation in those circumstances was not unusual, too.

And again, if you could actually show the censuses you have found so we don't have to go hunting for them.

I see only one George Evans cabinetmaker in 1881

Name: George Evans
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

Street Address: 1 Marys Place
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Cabinet Maker

Registration district: Birmingham

George Evans 38
Clara Evans 10
Thomas C. Evans 8
Walter Evans 5
Frederick Evans 2

You might get a lot more help if you gave us the info you have instead of just telling us you have it!! (Do read the "Guidelines" post at the top of this board, if you haven't.)

You have his death certificate and marriage certificate. Please tell us what else they say. Things like his wife's name and the witnesses' names and his address at marriage may not seem relevant, but one never knows, and there's no point in us starting out handicapped by not knowing everything you do.

You may find that George Evans was a convenient invention, as is the case for many of us.

Evans could be Harry's mother's surname, and George the given name of his father (different surname) or stepfather. Evans could be a stepfather's surname. There are numerous possible variations.

??

1911 census - household transcription
Person: EVANS, Harry
Address: 18 Burwell Street Hyson Green Nottingham


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KNOWLES, William Head Married M 44 1867 Greengrocer Nottingham VIEW
HICKEY, Mary Sister Married F 48 1863 Housekeeper Balbriggan Dublin VIEW
HICKEY, Robertt Nephew Single M 23 1888 Coal Miner Hewer Nottingham VIEW
HICKEY, Hilda Niece Single F 14 1897 Cigarette Maker Nottingham VIEW
JARVIS, Violet Niece Single F 15 1896 Lace Finisher Long Eaton Derbyshire VIEW
EVANS, Harry Boarder Single M 30 1881 Wood Carrer Birmingham Warwick VIEW >>Looks like Carver on the image

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My maternal grand-father 'Harry' Evans was always portrayed to me as a 'wood-carver' or 'cabinet-maker' who had been a teacher and was from the Vauxhall area of Birmingham which I have subsequently found to be close to Duddeston or Aston. Working from his death details which I have it appears he was born around 1878-1879. From his marriage certificate (obtained by me) he was shown as a 'Bachelor' of 38 in 1919 - born around 1881 and as a 'wood-carver'. His father is shown as George Evans on the marriage certificate - a 'cabinet-maker'.

I am having a great deal of trouble tracing 'Harry' Evans in the census records with a father called George who happened to be a cabinet maker.

I can find two George Evans who were cabinet makers in the census records with a son of the right age - but not called 'Harry' - Frederick in one case, Charles D in the other. I appear to have a bit of a dis-connect which isn't sitting well.

I have to imagine that 'Harry' wasn't a bachelor when he married my grand-mother but had been married before.....

Has anyone any bright ideas as to how I might get a resolution to this?

Best wishes,

Greg