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1867 Henry Charles Vernon born 1806 at Hilton hall.
1871 Hilton hall
Henry Charles Vernon 65
Catherine 65
Daughter Maria? unmarried 40
Frederick Wentworth Vernon 31 married 1867. he was a reverand married twice and had 16 children
Other sons of Henry Charles Vernon 1806 were
William George 1841
Edward Hamilton 1844
Augustus Leveson 1836 he was at Hilton Hall in 1891.

Can't see who was at the Hall in 1861.

This is going to be a difficult to confirm.

Elizabeth Brotherton 1813 married william Brotherton 29/12/1831.
He was born 1804 Staffs and died 1859.
They had daughter Margaret 1845 died 1879 it was she who married william Matthews.

Maryb.

Seems that the Estate was sold in 1951 but this is a link with plenty of information:-

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=53409

Many thanks for all of the above, I have been unable to trace any baptism records for Joseph. The reason that he could have been born in Lancashire is that it was common practice for the pregnant mother of a bastard child to be secreted away to another area until giving birth. The fact that Joseph was back living on the Vernon estate at Moseley Hall befor he was 1 year old goes a long way to confirming this..
The 1871 census shows a Lawrence family living in Preston,
Richard Laerence aged 51 born Wednesfield
Elizabeth Lawrence aged 51 Born Wales.
In the 1861 census they are shown living in Wednesfield with an 11 year old daughter Elizabeth, she does not appear in the 1871 census and I have been unsuccessful in tracing her. I am also having trouble tracing the vernon household at Hilton Park Hall, prior to josephs birth.
Tthe 1881 cencus shows Joseph aged 11 living in the Brotherton Household with her son in law William Mathews (widower) and his Children.
I Can remember my aunt commenting on Bernard Mathews Turkeys,and my late great uncle Joseph (son of Joseph Lawrence) comenting " be carefull you could be mocking your own family". He was a secretive man and never spoke of his family, Just mabe there could be a link!.
Thanks once again for your valued input.
Regards
Larry.

He was born in Manchester according to 1871.81.census, but on 1901/1911 it says born Bushbury,so which is it???
Birth Apr 1870 Rochdale Greater Manchester Joseph lawrence 8e 63.

Maryb

Hello Larry and welcome to the boards.

It may be worthwhile putting Joseph's details into the Search Trees box (in the dark green bar above), as there are several other members of this site who have him in their tree. I would suggest that you +/- 2 years as they seem to have 1870 for his date of birth. You can contact the tree owners for further information.

Regards. Cx.

Marriages Dec 1891 (>99%)

Lawrence Joseph Wolverhampton 6b 968
Perks Emily Wolverhampton 6b 968

could he have named his father on the marriage cert ?

I wonder if Alice could be somehow related? - The family appear to have been in Ireland in 1871

1881

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Henry RICHARDS Head M Male 35 Harbom, Stafford, England Bedstead Maker (Journeyman)
Alice RICHARDS Wife M Female 32 Kings Norton, Worcester, England Tailoress
Frederick H. RICHARDS Son Male 10 Dublin, Ireland Scholar
Ada M.A. RICHARDS Daur Female 12 Gosport, Hampshire, England Scholar
Alice C. LAWRENCE Step Daur Female 14 Bushbury, Stafford, England Electro Plate Burnisher


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Source Information:
Dwelling 4 Court 19 Bell Barn Road
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341711
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2974 / 18
Page Number 30

If his birth wasnt registered then the best bet would be a baptism for him. Have you tried Family Search site Pilot records

I am trying to trace the parents of my illigitimate great grandfather Joseph Lawrence. 1871 census shows him living at Moseley Hall, Bushbury, Staffordshire.aged 1 as a visitor in the Brotherton household, and again in 1881 aged 11 as a nurse child. His place of birth was entered as Manchester. He Married Emily Perks in 1891 in Wolverhampton. I am informed that he was farthered in the Vernon Household at Hilton park Hall, Shareshill, Staffordshire, His mother being a servant/maid. There must be some truth in this as the vernon family also owned the moseley estate and were said to have provided for josephs upkeep and education. Joseph later became sexton of St Marys church Bushbury, and continued living in the area until his death in 1930. I would be very greatfull for any assistance in confirming his parents and also finding out how he got the name of Lawrence.
Regards
Larry.