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Hello, I am trying to trace Charles back further. His census entries say he was born York, Hull or Derby. He had 5 children with Mary Ann Poland (nee Shirvell - she already had 5 with Benjamin Poland). Married her in 1868, 8 years after their last child! He named his father as Samuel on the mar-cert.
My line goes Samuel 1850, Charles 1878, Leonard 1818.

Charles was a "stone mason", but arrived in Portsea as a labourer and also a widower - so his irst marriage may be interesting. Daughter Hannah ran off with James Sedgwick at 16 yrs - a travelling performer (circus?).

He basically worked on the docks, most likely buidling them. What I suspect is that he originally worked on the Hull Docks which were finished around 1850 and then maybe a large ready made workforce was shipped down to Portsmouth (literally I suspect), as I wonder why and how a very poor person moved all the way from "up North" to "down South"?

One last clue, both I and my brother have the "double-jointed" gene which runs in the Fletcher lines originating in Lancashire.

Samuel, a quarryman in Chapel en le Frith, b 1871, d 1849 is a possible candidate. (Son James -> Ellen,James,Elizabeth,Mary,William)

Most "northern" fletcher lines seem to be in the cotton/weaving industry and also have biblical names eg Issac, Rebecca etc ... my lines are all rather royalist - William, James, Charles etc

So, if anyone has any ideas how I can move this on, I would be most grateful, better still if you are related.

Charles 1878 married Kate Hawkins, from Hugo Francis and Eliza Crabb. Hugo was from William and Mary Ann (born Donaghadee, Co. Down). Eliza was from North Tawton (sometimes misheard/transcribed as Taunton!), and is from the Crabb Family from Stoke Climsland and Callington.

Thanks for reading this "mighty post", but have been at this brickwall now for a couple of years,

Thanks

Rob

??

Leonard Fletcher
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

residence: York, England
parents: Leonard Fletcher, Sarah

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Leonard Fletcher
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 01 Dec 1819
baptism/christening place: SAINT PATRICKS YORK ROAD-ROMAN CATHOLIC,LEEDS,YORK,ENGLAND
father's name: Leonard Fletcher
mother's name: Sarah
indexing project (batch) number: C08890-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 828141

Thanks, but I somehow doubt this one because Charles's father WAS Samuel. Charles and Mary were illiterate (both marking X on their marriage cert in 1868). Of course, why he says York, Hull and Derby as his birthplace is interesting - but then, maybe the question was "where do you come from?" - and being "simple folk" maybe took that literally and said he came from Yorkshire (written as Yorks), and another time we see "Yorks,Hull" because that's where he was before he came down to Portsea? But once he did say where he was BORN which was Derby (or maybe Derbys).

All supposition, but trying to think what may have caused the discrepancies and then to finally begin to start tracing back.

Of course, his first daughter was Hannah, and so maybe his mother was a Hannah. Mary Poland/Shirvell's family don't seem to have Hannah in there.

Interesting to wonder where my father's names Leonard Bertram came from? 4 of his sisters were named after flowers - another one was Kathleen, which perhaps show some Irish Hawkins roots? The brothers were Charles, Ronald, Frank, Walter

Cheers
Rob

Charles Orlando Fletcher
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

residence: Hampshire, England
parents: Richard Fletcher, Elizabeth

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Charles Orlando Fletcher
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 19 Mar 1806
baptism/christening place: SAINT MARYS,PORTSEA,HAMPSHIRE,ENGLAND
father's name: Richard Fletcher
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C06261-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 919739

that's the closest to the dob I can find - there are a lot of Charles Fletcher's born Portsea but all much later

Charles c.1818 was not born Portsea, he was most likely born either Derbyshire or Yorkshire, but ended up living and working in Portsea as a dockyard labourer.

I have traced and got records for the lines down from this Charles , my gt gt grandfather, to me - so no problems there.

What I am trying to do is go back to his family and father Samuel, who I would guess was born say 20 or so years before Charles, so we are looking at a Samuel up North born around 1780-1800 (which gives him time to grow up and have family). As I said, most of the Fletcher lines with Samuel around that age are in the wrong industry or have the wrong familial names.

Tricky one -

Cheers,

Rob

PS Wonder when the indexed marriages section will be back - been gone off-line now for a day!

well your heading says born Portsea 1818

Found this on Family Search ...... a possibility??


CHARLES FLETCHER Pedigree
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 02 DEC 1810 Stony Middleton, Derby, England

Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: SAMUEL FLETCHER Family
Mother: ANN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C058972 1663 - 1812
:-)

Stoney Middleton was an area big in stone quarries.

The family Christine has shown above also had daughters, Ann, Martha and Mary Ann.

I can't get Stoney Middleton to come up on the 1841 census though.

Ann Fletcher
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

residence: Derbyshire, England
parents: Samuel Fletcher, Ann

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Ann Fletcher
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 27 Nov 1808
baptism/christening place: STONY MIDDLETON,DERBY,ENGLAND
father's name: Samuel Fletcher
mother's name: Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C05897-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 428943

Charles Fletcher
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth: 07 Jun 1819
residence: 1819 —Derbyshire, England
parents: Joseph Fletcher, Sarah

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Charles Fletcher
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 24 May 1825
baptism/christening place: HEANOR,DERBY,ENGLAND
birth date: 07 Jun 1819
father's name: Joseph Fletcher
mother's name: Sarah
indexing project (batch) number: C05454-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 498089


Charles Fletcher
England and Wales Census, 1861

birth: 1819 —Loscoe, Derbyshire
residence: 1861 —Codnor Park, Nottinghamshire, England
census: 1861 —Codnor Park, Nottinghamshire, England

record title: England and Wales Census, 1861
name: Charles Fletcher
event: Census
event date: 1861
gender: Male
age: 42
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Loscoe, Derbyshire
record type: Household
registration district: Basford
sub-district: 1 Greasley
ecclesiastical parish: Codnor
civil parish: Codnor Park
county:

Thanks for this - yes looks good. Martha has been used twice and Mary Ann as well ...

Sorry for the confusion - I meant in the title that his family were Portsea based (I would have put b.1818 if he was born in Portsea), and he was born 1818-ish. Trying too hard to get info over in the title .. oops.

I still think the reasons for him moving to Portsea would be interesting to know or speculate about.

I've had to research the whole Fletcher line from scratch as I never knew any of them bar my father. Quite a surprise to find I am 1/8th Irish and 1/8 Cornish.

Of course, the Irish lines are proving to be a real real hassle. And Hawkins in the North is NOT a good surname to be researching, as there were many who were involved in not such nice goings on in the mid 1800's.

With the Hawkins names of William, Hugo Francis, Ann Matilda, Mary Ann I would guess they were protestant. Hugo used Francis as his given name.

Again, it may be that these Hawkins are related to Admiral Hawkins, cousin of Francis Drake (hence the Franics??)

Hugo was cook on the HMS Himalaya and Victory 1, accorording to his naval record.

Anyways, I'll check out these lines and see what I can come up with.

Thanks again

Rob

The Samuel Fletcher in 1841 in the Peak Forest area is the one I find interesting. 60yrs old, quarryman. If you go to the previous census page (by changing the number in the address line of your browser - it's the number after "imagexxxximage/" - this then gives you the enumerator page before the one found and it's nearly ALL Fletchers! 25 of them!

If you look at the satellite image in google for Peak Forest, you'll see it's nearly all farms and huge quarries.

The Fletcher names are all of the right "type" - William, James, Martha, Hannah etc... if Hannah was a "family name" then this is perhaps why Charles used it for his first daughter.

Seems a likely crowd ..

Rob