Find Ancestors

For several years now I've had a huge brick wall , so I'm trying a different avenue now by appealing to anyone who may have a James Smith [b early 1800s] and a John Smith[ b 1839/40] who were both Tailors by trade with a connection to Kent in their Family Tree ?
I have John's marriage cert. and his death cert - which of course give me no clues to where he was born. Because of this I can't follow him on any census and unfortunately his married life fell between the census of 1871 & 1881. In October 1871 when he married he gave his address as High Street, Tunbridge Wells, but the census doesn't show him there. Both he and his wife died very young in 1879/80.
I've rekindled my search as I've just received some Hot Matches for james Smith and have sent messages to 7 of them, but i don't hold out much hope.
How do you find someone if you don't know where they were born ?? Any suggestions will be most gratefully received or even better would be if you actually have these ancestors too !
many thanks Eileen :-S

Can I just check.................

You have the 1871 marriage cert.........

The groom's age is (presumably) 31, and his occupation Tailor.

His father is named as James, and he is also a Tailor

Have you found John's wife in 1871?

And who witnessed the marriage?

I think Eileen has the death cert already Susan?

Speaking of which, I assume there is no address on there? As Flick says, we could do with the witnesses' names on the marriage cert, and where his wife is 1871.

Jan

Did he actually marry in Tunbridge? I can't see a marriage in the area for him in Oct 1871.

Thanks Jan

Having a name like John Smith doesn't help either,A bit more info would be nice .
Suex :-)

So sorry everyone - I'd written it all out and then lost it when I clicked 'submit' button - so here goes again :
John Smith ,32, Tailor, married Mary Ann Cox ,21 9th Oct 1871 in Canterbury Register Office. [ these were my great grandparents]
Groom's father : James Smith , deceased. Tailor.
Witnesses were : Morris Cox [ bride's brother] & Hester Ann Savage [ brides sister]

I have no problems with Mary Ann and have all the info on her. She was previously a Needlewoman and one of her brothers was also a Tailor.

Regarding their deaths. She died in 1879 at 5 Park St, Tunbridge wells and is buried in the borough cemetery [ unmarked]
John died 1880 only 8 months later, at the T.Wells Infirmary. He is buried in the Woodbury Park Cemetery [ unmarked] .
They left 2 young sons who ended up in an Orphanage in Greenwich run by the Plymouth brethren apparently. [ I've had contact with the Greenwich Heritage Centre]
[1881 Census] - so I don't know if there are any clues there ?
Hope I've covered everything - many thanks Eileen
:-S

FMP allows a search by occupation. Here are two tailors, father James, son John in 1851. I wonder if they are worth considering.

Address: Church Street, Midhurst County: Sussex

SMITH, James Head Married M 48 1803 Tailor Midhurst Sussex
SMITH, C Wife Married F 45 1806 Aldborough Suffolk
SMITH, H Daughter Unmarried F 21 1830 London Middlesex
SMITH, John Son Unmarried M 16 1835 Tailor Evesham Worcestershire
SMITH, William Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Scholar Evesham Worcestershire
SMITH, Mary Daughter F 8 1843 Scholar Midhurst Sussex

Eileen, we asked where Mary Ann was in 1871 census as it might offer a clue as to John's whereabouts, in view of the fact that they married later that year.
So, can you tell us where she was, maybe paste census onto here?
Jan

Thanks Adeline - I had seen this one and I think I pursued it [ I'll have another look] even though John's age is wrong - I've got soooo many likely Smiths that always end up nowhere - there's always something that makes it the wrong person !
I've been tempted in these instances to do birth searches and take a chance on it being right, but that way it costs a fortune in wrong certs !!
I've got a note I made a couple of years ago of 2 Tailors shops in The High St, T.Wells 1871 . They give the names of the Employers but not the employees - just how many men they employed. So I'm assuming John was lodging somewhere. If he lived above the shop he would surely have been on the Census there ?

Hi Brummiejan so sorry - yes - I have Mary Ann Cox with her family in Canterbury Lane , Canterbury in 1851,1861 & 1871 census. I thought maybe she'd met John Smith via her brother DeBart Cox who was a Tailor too.

1871 census

COX, James Head M 64 1807 Kent
COX, Emily Mary Daughter F 35 1836 Kent
COX, Mary Ann Daughter F 21 1850 Kent
COX, Edward Son M 19 1852 Kent
COX, James Son M 17 1854 Kent
SAVAGE, Hester Ann Daughter F 25 1846 Kent
COX, Maria Granddaughter F 11 1860 Kent
RG number: RG10 Piece: 969 Folio: 49 Page: 11

Registration District: Canterbury Sub District: Canterbury Enumeration District: 26 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish: St George the Martyr Municipal Borough: Canterbury
Address: Canterbury Lane, St George The Martyr, Canterbury County: Kent

There is a Journeyman tailor in tunbridge
??Big brother perhaps.
SMITH, James G Head M 43 1828 Kent
SMITH, Elizabth Housekeeper F 37 1834 Sussex
SMITH, Percy Son M 11 1860 Kent
CREASY, Ellen Child Nurse F 2 1869 Kent
RG number: RG10 Piece: 929 Folio: 66 Page: 36

Registration District: Tunbridge Sub District: Tunbridge Wells Enumeration District: 18 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish: Tunbridge Municipal Borough: Address: Beech Road, Tunbridge, Tunbridge Wells County: Kent

I will investigate further thank you pam