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Hello - can anyone help me? I'm stuck! My great-grandfather Alfred Edward Roberts was born in Dugshai in India in 1872. I have his original birth certificate. His father is given as Alfred Roberts, Sergeant in the 85th K.L.I., and his mother is given as Helen Jane Roberts. By 1881, Alfred Edward is back in England, living in Chestnut Road, Twickenham, with his mother who in all the censuses is called Ellen, so I assume the original "Helen Jane" was in fact "Ellen Jane". Ellen was born circa 1851 (aged 30 in the 1881 census) in Middlesex. There are three siblings of Alfred Edward listed in the 1881 census - Emma born circa 1870, Arthur born circa 1875 and Florence born circa 1880-1. All bar Alfred are born in Middlesex. I assume Ellen is widowed circa 1880, as there is no mention of Alfred in the 1881 census and by 1891 she is described as widowed. I would like to find the births of Alfred senior and Ellen, and also their marriage. I have looked in various standard places (Ancestry, Family Search, India Office, etc.) and I'm not getting anywhere. Is the 85th Regiment of Light Infantry a useful clue, or not? I would appreciate any ideas...

Just for info because we find it much easier to follow the actual record (one long paragraph of text is difficult -- it helps to space it out by hitting "enter" a couple of times between thoughts).


1881

Name: Ellen Roberts
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Where born: Staines, Middlesex, England
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)

Civil parish: Twickenham
County/Island: Middlesex
Street Address: 31 Chesnut Rd

Ellen Roberts 30 - domestic servant
Emma Roberts 11
Alfred Roberts 9
Arthur Roberts 6
Florence Roberts
Ethel Roberts 3
Harriet Fisher 10 - boarder
Henry Fisher 8
Edward Fisher 6
Edward Hales 33

Does Alfred's Indian birth certificate have his Mother's maiden name, or are you going to get the certificate of one of his siblings to establish her name?
(Or do you mean her maiden name was also Roberts?)
Thank-you

Florence, 5 mo old in 1881, shows as born in Twickenham, Middlesex.


http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl


The birth certificate will give you the mother's surname ... except I can't find a Florence Roberts birth to fit.

Ethel Roberts, 3, also shows as born in Twickenham. This should be her:

Births Mar 1878
Roberts Ethel Mary Brentford 3a 68

Had problems finding them as it's listed as Chesnut Rd.

1881 Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Ellen ROBERTS Head W Female 30 Staines, Middlesex, England Domestic Servant
Emma ROBERTS Daur U Female 11 Staines, Middlesex, England Scholar
Alfred ROBERTS Son U Male 9 India Scholar
Arthur ROBERTS Son U Male 6 India Scholar
Florence ROBERTS Daur U Female 5 m Twickm, Middlesex, England
Ethel ROBERTS Daur U Female 3 Twickm, Middlesex, England


Source Information:
Dwelling 31 Chesnut Rd
Census Place Twickenham, Middlesex, England

I posted the census above ...

?
Marriages Jun 1867
DRYHURST Robert Brentford 3a 107
MOODY Caroline Annie Brentford 3a 107
xxx Roberts Alfred Brentford 3a 107
xxx STUCKEY Helen Jane Brentford 3a 107

Bit out with age though:
Births Dec 1848
STUCKEY Helen Jane Brentford 3 32
so perhaps not.

Hi - thanks all.

No, there is no maiden name for Helen / Ellen on the Dugshai birth certificate.

I hadn't thought of getting the siblings' birth certificates - good idea.

I will check out the Ethel Mary birth and the Roberts / Stuckey marriage.

Wonderful!

Not that far out on age -- in 1891 Ellen is a bit older:

Name: Ellen Roberts
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Twickenham, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Chiswick

Ellen Roberts 41
Alfred Roberts 19
Ethel Roberts 13
Florence Roberts 10


I'd get the Ethel birth cert for Ellen's name, and that will clarify.

baptism Holy Trinity Twickenham
Name: Ethel Mary Roberts
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1878
Baptism Date: 19 May 1878
Father's name: Alfred Roberts ---soldier
Mother's name: Ellen Jane Roberts
Parish or Poor Law Union: Twickenham
Borough: Richmond upon Thames
? address 2nd cross road

I couldn't see a death that fit for Alfred Sr 1877-1881.

Helen Jane Stuckey may well be a good candidate despite the age discrepancy - her mother was called Emma, and Alfred and Helen / Ellen's first daughter was named Emma.

If Alfred senior was a soldier, could he have died elsewhere on duty?

Also, on the 1881 census in John Stuckey's household, there is listed an "Ellen Roberts" - granddaughter. She was born circa 1868, which would be good timing for the 1867 marriage, and might explain the gap before Emma circa 1870.

Helen Jane Roberts married Frederick Hales J/A/S 1891 she died 1927 in Brentford down as being born 1849 so looks like the same lady.
She is on 1901 as born in Twickenham.There is a William Roberts 1896 as visitor.

1911 92,Station rd barnet 8 rooms
Helen Hales 62
Hilda Buck grandaughter 1901
William Hales 24 son 1887 so before she married Fred Hales in 1891.

Maryb.

Thank you, everyone - I'm new to the thread thing, and am astonished by the speed and quantity of information!