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Hi Everyone

I'm searching for ancestors of 2x G Grandfather John Harris (aka Jack Harris) 1857 - 1934, he was born in Manchester. He was married to Mary Ellen Roscoe (1860 - 1927), also from Manchester and the had three children Minnie, Ellen & Nellie.

It's quite a common name and I'm struggling to find any earlier relatives, any help is greatfully received.

Thanks
Paul

A copy of his marriage certificate should (Hopefully) name his father and give his occupation. That may assist you in narrowing down the possibilities.

Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
HARRIS John Manchester 8d 256
ROSCOE Mary Elizabeth Manchester 8d 256

N.B. Note that on the marriage reference Mary's 2nd name is recorded as Elizabeth rather than Ellen.

Do you have his marriage certificate to determine his father's christian name?

I don't have a copy! Any idea where I could get a copy? Sorry pretty new to this game!

Order online from www.gro.gov.uk

Cost £9.25 including postage to anywhere in the world.

How have you got back to him without using birth and marriage certificates?
1891 England Census
John Harris
Age: 33 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary E Harris
Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Bradford Cum Beswick Ecclesiastical parish: Beswick and Bradford Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Registration district: Prestwich Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 30 Piece: 3256 Folio: 127 Page Number: 41

John Harris 33 labourer wire works Manchester
Mary E Harris 35 cotton weaver
Ellen Harris 6
Minnie Harris 2
Mary Roscoe 71 malaw Accrington

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3256; Folio 127; Page 41; GSU roll: 6098366.

Yes I have copies of 1891, 1901 & 1911 census's

Are you sure that Ellen is Mary's middle name? This is the only likely marriage that I can see (assuming they married in Manchester)

Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
HARRIS John Manchester 8d 256
ROSCOE Mary Elizabeth Manchester 8d 256

This looks like Mary and Mary in 1881 before her marriage, so is Jack going to be in the same area? (But you need that marriage certificate)
1881 England Census
Mary E. Roscoe
Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Daughter Mother's name: Mary Roscoe
Gender: Female Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Bradford County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Eldon St
Occupation: Cotton Cop Winder
Registration district: Prestwich Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Piece: 4014 Folio: 98
Page Number: 21

Mary Roscoe 62
Mary E. Roscoe 23

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4014; Folio: 98; Page: 21; GSU roll: 1341958.

Remote possibility
1881 England Census
John Harris
Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's name: Thomas Harris Mother's name: Ellen Harris
Gender: Male Where born: Bradford, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Bradford County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 48 Brooke Str
Occupation: Catcher At Iron Rollers
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 35 Piece: 4017 Folio: 83 Page Number: 34

Thomas Harris 52
Ellen Harris 49
John Harris 23
Mary A. Harris 19
Jemima Harris 17
Thomas Harris 14

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4017; Folio: 83; Page: 34; GSU roll: 1341959.

I have a copy of a 1861 census where it looks as though Mary's middle name is Ellen, but there again i'm not 100% sure. I You are correct jerseylily. Should I order a copy of the marriage certicficate or do you think I could find any more informtion on line?

Hi Patchem, That is a possibility, The Mother's name is Ellen and John named one of his daughters Ellen

Paul - with such a fairly common name you MUST get certificates or you could end up going along the wrong garden path!

You're right! My git feeling say's it's correct, but like you say it's worth making sure. I'll oder a marriage certificate, thanks

Just read the last post back, sorry dyslexic finger! ;-)

Before you start ordering certificates can you let us know what information you have that you are 100% convinced is correct and can be backed up by certificates - start with yourself if necessary.

With such a common name as Harris it is so easy to follow the wrong line.

I don't really have much more information about the Harris's. My G Grandmother was Minni Harris, daughter of John and Mary. Sorry not much to go on

This Minnie?:
Births Jun 1888
HARRIS Minnie Prestwich 8d 367

Just had a look on FreeBMD for the birth of Mary E Roscoe in Lancashire and these are the possibilities

Births Jun 1858 (>99%)
Roscoe Mary Elizabeth Manchester 8d

Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
ROSCOE Mary Ellen Prescot 8b 476

Births Jun 1863 (>99%)
ROSCOE Mary Ellen Ashton 8d 368

However -

Deaths Mar 1861 (>99%)
Roscoe Mary Ellen Prescot 8b 414

The above Mary Ellen seems to be the one you have in your tree and Minnie's mother in 1891 does give her birth year as 1858 so possibly she was in fact Mary Elizabeth which ties in with the Mary that Patchem has in the 1881, the mother is the right age too.

I'd bite the bullet and order the John Harris/Mary Elizabeth Roscoe marriage certificate.

Sorry, Paul, but I'd be wanting to go back a bit. Mary Ellen Roscoe is your gg grandmother. That's 4 generations back from you. A long way. I assume you know who your parents were. And their parents (your grandparents). So are you sure you know who your g grandparent on the Harris side was? Do you have certificates to prove that it was John/Jack Harris?